SUNBAC Silverstone 26 March

[Richard ibrahim]

I’ve just been talking with David Baxter, the secretary of SUNBAC, regarding their race meeting at Silverstone on Sunday 25th March. Once again, he has been struggling to get sufficient interest from the various championships and at present he is short of races (7 at present). There is clearly a danger of this meeting being cancelled again if short of entries and, of course, it is all dependent upon Silverstones’ circuit fee demands.
At present there are no races planned for saloon cars – so I raised the possibility of running a ‘one-off’ saloon (and sports?) car race at the event, if enough entries could be gathered. The race could be to a set of regs similar to, say, the LMA Eurosaloons or Track & Race (or even an open handicap race -they're always good for laugh!)
This would be an ideal event to try out/test your car and also support one of the remaining Silverstone “clubbies”.
I’m planning to do the BARC-SE meeting on the Stowe circuit on the Saturday (25th) and would be more than happy to stay over and race on the National circuit on the Sunday.
Anybody else up for it ?

[Richard ibrahim]

Whoops ! - meant Sunday 26th

[graham bahr]

i too am planning to do the stowe meeting as a cheap way of testing and putting a few miles on the car, subject to not breaking it on saturday and a SENSABLE entry fee i'd be up for it.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by graham bahr

....... subject to not breaking it on saturday and a SENSABLE entry fee i'd be up for it.

What do you call sensible?

[Richard ibrahim]

Expect something in the region of £155-£160.

[graham bahr]

if it were £160 for one race then i think i'd pass on it, the main thing that keeps cars off the grid is the entry fee's in the first place, to stay on overnight plus all the extra fuel etc means your talking an extra £225-£250 for an extra non championship race, which is too much especially if its one race.

if we were talking under £150 for two races thats another story, as barc se have proved and the december races at Anglesea, get the entry fee low enough and your have bucket loads of entries.

if the suggestion was race for £100 i bet you would have full grids and reserves, its only the same policy as supermarkets work on, its better to sell a lot of something cheap than a few a a lot of dosh

changing the subject, it seems every time i hear of a race meeting in trouble in terms of entries its one in which saloons weren't invited

[Tim Falce]

I agree with all you say there Graham but somehow it aint gonna happen. The problem with Anglesey is that to get there you have to go to the edge of the world, fall off, and then go past the dragons, it's that far away. You can more than double your race entry with a fuel bill.

[Ian Sowman]

And circuit hire costs at Anglesey are much less. Could be worth SUNBAC putting on 2 x 10 minute races and a 10-minute qualifying (if you can under the blue book) - might be more tempting than 15-minute qualifying and 15-minute race, even though track time is the same?

Graham, what meetings in trouble were you thinking of?

[JohnMiller]

If he runs a single-seater Libre race I'd expect to find something to enter.

Bearing in mind the Golden Helmet and Club F3 dates being then 'round the corner' it would make good pre-season testing/clear out any rustiness.

[Ian Sowman]

Given that Mono and CTCRC and SRGT are already there, I would expect a sensibly priced Open Sports/Saloon and Open Single Seaters race to get a full grid apiece.

[Richard ibrahim]

All true Graham, but unfortunately BARC-SE are the exception and even they have to charge the high fees that we have come to expect as "normal", when using the premier circuits. It would seem that the circuit owners are the villains in the peace here.David Baxter advised me of that approximate figure after explaining that he needs at least 170 odd entries just to pay for the circuit/MSA insurance/fire&ambulance/marshalls expenses etc etc. I have a lot of sympathy with the Motor Clubs, as even accepting the point that lower prices = more takers, there is a crossover point on this graph and the Silverstone fee(which he is still waiting to hear !) forces the club to make the poor old competitor foot the bill - so fees need to be high, even with a full grid.
Up with it we should not put !! - but what's the alternative ? Take up darts?

[MGDavid]

The alternative is to race anywhere that has a more sensible circuit hire policy than Silverstone ! (sorry to state the bleedin' obvious)

[chezza]

The problem is that most circuits don't have a sensible circuit hire fee. Also this season they seem to have had issues sorting out how much they want to charge people.

[graeme]

The trouble is it clashes with the open saloon races at Anglesey - too many races on one weekend...?

[Al Weyman]

I agree with all you say there Graham but somehow it aint gonna happen.

I disagree, well not with Graham but with that statement.

In this internet age things can, are and in my opinion will happen. It is goes down the line, if we refuse to pay these ridiculous fees then that means the club can't run the meeting and the net result is the circuit will loose the booking. Sooner or later whether they like it or not they are gonna have to lower there fees to survive as well as start promoting the meeting to get the public back in to witness some of the good club racing that is still around. This is business, this is how it works, if I can't sell my wares for X or Y ammount then I have absolutely no choice but to adjust prices like any other High Street store. I sincerely think it will happen and this is the place to start it.

[Mike Holmes]

Yes agreed but this is the start of the season when everyone should be really keen to get out and blow the cobwebs off and get some miles on the car. I think it shows the state we have reached when competitors are not going for this sort of event? They prefer to either chase a championship or have found the whole thing too costly to do the odd even here and there and have given up, I have said it many times but by the time you have paid your medical, got your license, pandered to the MSA's latest whim, which in my case is seatbelts,fire extinguisher and transponder and paid your entry fee you are not far short of a grand just to be there. If you are only going to do a few events it aint so attractive. Sorry to be a prophet of gloom but that's how it is in my case.

[Al Weyman]

I think you could get that lot for under £500 if you were careful Mike, I did last year. Medical £85, Licence £45, Belts £100, Fire extinguisher £100, Transponder £165 (according to CTCRC News letter). Still too much though and a valid point.

[graham bahr]

Originally Posted by Richard ibrahim

All true Graham, but unfortunately BARC-SE are the exception and even they have to charge the high fees that we have come to expect as "normal", when using the premier circuits.

i here what your saying Richard and although barc se do have to charge more for the premier circuits you will still find they manage they manage to give a better deal than most.

[graham bahr]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Sooner or later whether they like it or not they are gonna have to lower there fees to survive as well as start promoting the meeting to get the public back in to witness some of the good club racing that is still around. This is business, this is how it works, if I can't sell my wares for X or Y ammount then I have absolutely no choice but to adjust prices like any other High Street store. I sincerely think it will happen and this is the place to start it.

either that or the circuits will be sold to housing developers

[Richard ibrahim]

Al - my sentiments exactly, but I believe the reality will be somewhat different.
Firstly, if the high fees continue(as is certain) then club racing will suffer a slow death as the competitors will not suddenly boycott the scene - it would be great if they did, but they won't ! It will simply continue the gradual decline that we are starting to see at grass roots level racing, until all that's left is national single seater/one make championships etc. I'm an old git (going on 63) and I'm saddened,when I stroll down the pit lane of most club meeting, and see a disproportionately high percentage of similar old gits! Which brings me to my second point - who can blame the young lads from now favouring trackdays over racing ? This unfortunately brings the whole argument back on itself - because the major beneficiaries of this are the bloody circuit owners ! Sorry if this sounds defeatest, but internet or not, I can only see this as a oneway street.
Anyway, my intention of starting this thread wasn't to have a philosophical debate, it was to gather competitors for a potential race ! ANY TAKERS !!!

[graham bahr]

Originally Posted by Mike Holmes

Yes agreed but this is the start of the season when everyone should be really keen to get out and blow the cobwebs off and get some miles on the car. I think it shows the state we have reached when competitors are not going for this sort of event? They prefer to either chase a championship

agreed mike, but if your gonna spend a fortune racing its most will feel it better to do the championship and have a chance of coming out of it with something at the years end, also theres a lot to be said for racing with other competitors and cars you know, as opposed to the pot luck random event stuff.

so whilst i will do non championship events they really do have to be good value, because in doing one i'm risking the car and funds available for the championship

[graham bahr]

Originally Posted by Richard ibrahim

Anyway, my intention of starting this thread wasn't to have a philosophical debate, it was to gather competitors for a potential race ! ANY TAKERS !!!

probably very few unless someone gives some firmish prices and what we get for them

[peter thurston]

I agree with you that BARC SE is cheap.But on saturday night I went to arena with a friend to help with his stock car.He paid £10 to get in and race,unloaded his car and drove round to be scrutineered and enter all in one,then did 2 practice and 4 race's and there was even £40 prize money, on a cold january evening the place was buzzing.Doesn't this tell the other circuit's something.The gate money has to be the biggest potential earner for them. Why do we have to pay!! If all the drivers went on strike how long before the circuits and the MSA all had to have a rethink. As the promoter at arena said to me 'hell we don't want to charge you guy's your providing the entertainment!!!.

[Mike Holmes]

Graham, that's exactly my point, it has to be attractive to get entries, 8 clubs always had that philosophy, cheap entries lots of competitors but even that struggled. I have always done championships for the very reasons you have outlined, the primary one for me is you know who you are up against rather than some local hero out to make a point and before you all laugh and say that's rubbish it has happened believe me! The main issue now is to do a 10 race championship properly costs a lot of money. More and more competitors are simply not going down that route which means organisers are not sure they get full grids so hike the entry fee up a bit to compensate. End result even less competitors! 750MC have it right, lower entry fee's and lots of competitors. The series I race in had a guest race last year at one of their events and the entry fee was £40 cheaper than my own club's event!

[graham bahr]

i'm 100% with you peter, that should be the way forward, meanst while, wish i could get excited about going round in circles! and save a lot of dosh in the process