Best of the current era?

[Razzzor]

So I'm wondering who everybody rates as the best overall driver and the purely fastest driver in F1 at the moment?

I'm assuming most of you will say Alonso is the best complete package, while Hamilton is fastest on raw speed.

However I'm wondering how close Vettel is getting to those two. He's obviously very fast and could be equal on raw speed to Hamilton, but he's making no mistakes this year (excluding practice sessions). Look at how many mistakes Hamilton and Schumacher have made this year. Vettel's only error came in Canada where he ran wide in the wet.

The other thing that intrigues me about Vettel is how he's not overdriving much, and only pushing the car to it's limits when he really needs to, which is making him into a great overall driver. Not overdriving and conserving the tyres, and no real mistakes since August's Belgium GP last year. Add to that the fact he's won 6 races this year in a car that isn't dominant at all in race trim (either McLaren or Ferrari have been right on his tail at most races).

And while Alonso might be a 2 time champion, he really had a lot of luck those years as nothing seemed to go McLarens way in 2005, despite their dominant car, and 2006 would have gone to Schumacher had he not suffered reliability issues in the last 2 rounds.

[wnut]

I would rate Vettel as by far the fastest on pure speed.
Half the time; turn of phrase Marbot, I don't need a four decimal percentage; Hamilton can't even qualify better than his team mate!

[wnut]

This should probably be in Armchair Enthusiast, but since Vettel's character has been called into question sometimes, I challenge anyone not to watch this and then not end up thinking he's a pretty decent, rounded character: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqHYy2yZ4qI


This was posted by Strider in another thread.
The precision of Vettel's lap just blew me away!

[JeremySmith]

Lewis Hamilton..Pure speed and raw pace...

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by wnut

This should probably be in Armchair Enthusiast, but since Vettel's character has been called into question sometimes, I challenge anyone not to watch this and then not end up thinking he's a pretty decent, rounded character: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqHYy2yZ4qI


This was posted by Strider in another thread.
The precision of Vettel's lap just blew me away!

This has nothing to do with the title of the thread...

[Mr V]

I'm going for Vettel (but then i would ), I was convinced after Monza 2008 that he'd become the best. He has pure speed, as much as Hamilton for sure, but whereas Hamilton maybe "racier" Vettel is by far more intelligent. Take Silverstone for example. I've seen Vettel criticised for not overtaking Lewis, but offline it was slightly wet and why risk valuable points? Had it been the other way around, for sure Lewis would have gone for it, but it would have been 50/50 as to wether he'd have made it or gone off.

As for Fernando, he is an incredible all round talent, but i do have to take issue with this...

Originally Posted by Razzzor

and 2006 would have gone to Schumacher had he not suffered reliability issues in the last 2 rounds.

I'm sorry, but Fernando took 7 wins (same as Michael) 7 second places (alot better than Michael) and they both had 2 retirements. Yes, Michael had trouble in the last race, finishing 4th, but that's off set by Alonso only managing 5th at Germany. Plus Fernando did Michael by 13 points. Fernando was by far, the more deserving driver that year.

[deeks6]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Lewis Hamilton..Pure speed and raw pace...

I think Lewis is on pure speed and his overtaking is very raw.

Vettel is definitely the man if you want the fastest single lap punched out 8 times out of 10. Teflonso is probably still the best all round driver but Vettel soon

[deeks6]

Originally Posted by Mr V

As for Fernando, he is an incredible all round talent, but i do have to take issue with this...

I'm sorry, but Fernando took 7 wins (same as Michael) 7 second places (alot better than Michael) and they both had 2 retirements. Yes, Michael had trouble in the last race, finishing 4th, but that's off set by Alonso only managing 5th at Germany. Plus Fernando did Michael by 13 points. Fernando was by far, the more deserving driver that year.

Couldnt agree more ... and furthermore FA just does not make silly mistakes and is the most consistent driver going around. Thats why he stayed in the WDC fight last year for so long even with the 3rd best car.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by deeks6

I think Lewis is on pure speed and his overtaking is very raw.

Vettel is definitely the man if you want the fastest single lap punched out 8 times out of 10. Teflonso is probably still the best all round driver but Vettel soon

First of all Lewis can overtake, and Sebastian Vettel sometimes can overtake, he is not the racer Lewis is..

Sebastian has the best car on the grid period...

Alonso is very talented..................

[Razzzor]

Originally Posted by Mr V

I'm sorry, but Fernando took 7 wins (same as Michael) 7 second places (alot better than Michael) and they both had 2 retirements. Yes, Michael had trouble in the last race, finishing 4th, but that's off set by Alonso only managing 5th at Germany. Plus Fernando did Michael by 13 points. Fernando was by far, the more deserving driver that year.

Well who the most deserving driver is, is a different matter. Alonso WAS the more deserving champ in 2006, and in 2005 as well because he still managed to win in a car much slower than the McLaren. He simply drove better than RK/JPM.

But my point was more that he had to have a bit of luck on his side, not considering the rest of the 2006 season, Schumacher was faster than Alonso in the final 2 races, and Alonso would never have been champ had Schumacher's engine not blown while leading the penultimate race (he lost 10 of those 13 points right there) and the other technical problems he had in qualifying for Brazil. But yeah, Alonso still deserved the 2006 championship. He and MS both drove brilliantly. For that matter, Alonso probably deserved the 2007 title more than anyone else as well.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Razzzor

Schumacher was faster than Alonso in the final 2 races, and Alonso would never have been champ had Schumacher's engine not blown while leading the penultimate race (he lost 10 of those 13 points right there) and the other technical problems he had in qualifying for Brazil.

I suppose it's all relative isn't it. After all would Michael have been that close in points going into those last 2 races had Fernando's engine not gone pop in Monza??

Originally Posted by Razzzor

For that matter, Alonso probably deserved the 2007 title more than anyone else as well.

This i have to agree with and had he, (FA) stayed at McLaren in 2008 i personally believe that he'd have won the 2008 title, giving him 3 WDC's and Lewis none.

[deeks6]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

First of all Lewis can overtake, and Sebastian Vettel sometimes can overtake, he is not the racer Lewis is..

He can overtake clearly slower cars (who cant?) but when attempting against equal cars, accidents generally happen. Vettel would not want to be the racer that Hamilton is, he'd rather be himself (i.e. much better)

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Sebastian has the best car on the grid period...

At some circuits yes, others no

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Alonso is very talented..................

Goes without saying

[wnut]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

This has nothing to do with the title of the thread...

The video shows the character of the man, and how he deals with people.

The real point I was making, is look at how Vettel drives the lap in the reasonably priced car! The precision, smoothness and mechanical sympathy is amazing, and the lap is the fastest ever!

Watch how Vettel drives the lap and compare it with the footage of anyone else who has driven the lap. (I judge drivers according to how they perform, so I fail to see how this display of Vettel's is irrelevant in the debate about who the best driver is.)

This performance alongside his regular pole times has made me a believer.
I think he is probably the best and only Alonso is comparable ( and he stuffed up big time in the last race last year).

Last year Vettel took the title, from Japan onward he has been pretty well flawless losing out completely only in Korea through engine failure after starting on pole.
This year he has had 6 wins and 3 seconds (204 points from a possible 225!), his team mate Webber (124) who is a pretty decent driver has not faired nearly as well. So if we take Webber as the standard Vettel has done a stunning job.
The difference between a WDC and merely a good driver?


Adrian Newey's opinion about how good Sebastian is, how hard he works and how humble he is about his success must also set him apart from some of the others who seem to think they are god's personal gift to F1, and motor racing in general. I know who I'd rather be building a team around. The video showed the character of Vettel as a man.

[jab]

I think Vettel has quite a few questions to answer before he should even be considered the equal of Lewis and Alonso, let alone better. I think the car has flattered him for the last 3 years and also at Monza in 2008 as well. And I still don't buy that he's the nice, innocent guy he is made out to be

Alonso edges it for me. He doesn't quite have the tendency to overdrive as much as Lewis does, even though I think Lewis is marginally the faster driver. Kubica would be up there as well if he hand two working hands

At the moment I'd have it down as thus

Alonso
Lewis
Vettel
(gap)
Button
Webber
Rosberg (even though he's having a duff year this year)

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

First of all Lewis can overtake, and Sebastian Vettel sometimes can overtake, he is not the racer Lewis is..

Sebastian has the best car on the grid period...

Alonso is very talented..................

This would need to be between Vettel and Hamilton.

o Raw speed - I would say they're equal.

o Wheel to wheel race combat - Hamilton.

o Getting the car to the end to win races - Vettel.

Tinges of Prost and Senna really.

[safc_fan89]

The "problem" with Vettel is that it is only really this season that his performances have moved to the next level. He's always been fast but has been inconsistent, and has made a lot of costly mistakes.

So far this year he's really only made the mistake at Canada which lost him the lead, but he might not have won that race anyway as Button could well have passed in the DRS zone. And he still got 2nd. I think you could only declare him as "the best" when he has maintained his current level of performance for longer than half a season.

Alonso seems to make more mistakes than he did in his title-winning seasons, but when the car is decent he is always up there. You can see that even from this season, where he has a win and two second places from the last four races. He did also have a poor year by his standards in 2007 but still came within a few points of the title.

Hamilton I don't think can be considered seriously as he makes far too many mistakes. Towards the back end of last season they were coming at every other race, leading to either retirements or conceding positions to Alonso (Korea and Brazil). This season he's been hitting into anyone within range. He might be the fastest out there (I think Vettel probably is, but there's no way of saying for definite) but until he races with his brain he's going to keep falling short. I think since the first 10 races or so of 2007, he has been quite inconsistent and hasn't improved as a driver.

So overall, has to be Alonso. He's never had the clear fastest car, except for the first half of the 2006 season where I think his opening 9 races yielded the same number of wins and 2nds as Vettel has had this year, and has still won 27 races, 2 titles and been close to 2 more. He's fast, a good racer most of the time and when the car is good, the most consistent.

[Super Hans]

I've always said it's between Hamilton and Alonso, but Vettel has now joined them in a sort-of elite trio.

So, who is the best of the three?

Hamilton would be a good choice if you were involved in a close title battle with one or more similarly-paced teams.

Vettel would be good if you were running a team with a distinct car advantage and wanted to make the most of it.

Alonso would be good in either role, and therefore I consider him the best.

[luke g28]

The problem is this season you have Vettel who has had at least a half second advantage in qualy, putting him on pole and being able to control the race.

Then you have Hamilton over driving a slower car and getting very frustrated (plato in BTCC anybody?) leading to more risks and more rash decisions. After he took his 1st WDC he visibly relaxed and drove much smarter for a season but that has disappeared again.

Finally you have Alonso who also consistently out performs his car and needs to to get anywhere. You can see the frustration creeping through to him as well on occasion, Silverstone last year? no further radio contact. Yet he was severely pushed by Hamilton on his début year which is not exactly common.

Its a difficult call to make, I think they are definitely the top 3 but until we see Vettel in a car no better than his opposition (or even a half second slower) there isnt really a fair comparison.

[chunterer]

I'd go along with the Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel ranking really.

I was disappointed with Alonso's lacklustre end to last year, he seemed to lack the fire in the last race, the usual Alonso would surely have had a dive at Petrov.... Overall though when he's on it, noone is equal. I agree with V, had he stayed with Mac then 08 would have been his. Lewis is why purists love F1 drivers, sleeves rolled up, attack every lap even if doesn't always yield a win.

Vettel looks like he is still in the ascendent which is daunting fo the other 2! When he sizes someone up for a pass I always get this feeling that it's a done deal, very precise and no risk taking. Wheras with the other 2 there's always this element of doubt that they will pull it off.

I used to think the same with JPM, when he latched onto the back of a rival they would very swiftly be relegated because the confidence that he had that the car would make it, was superior to almost every other driver on the grid. He knew where he could put the car, and when, in order to make the pass. Then came early 2006 and that seemed to go out the window!

Button has gone so much up in my estimation the last 3 seasons, he such a polished race driver even though he clearly isn't the quickest guy out there. He reads a race very very well.

The Webber of 2010 surely was a threat to the the top 3 guys ad some of his races were stellar, but what's happened this year?

Rosberg isn't a true ace and never will be but a good solid driver. He lacks outright speed and racecraft.

Massa is another one who threatened the current elite in 07/08 but has dipped badly. Is he just a driver who matches the car? Not sure, his pace has gone up again recently and I hope he can push Alonso hard for the rest of this season and maybe even nab an overdue win.

Di Resta has shown clear signs that he could be a force in the long term, perhaps Perez too.

[strider]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

I've always said it's between Hamilton and Alonso, but Vettel has now joined them in a sort-of elite trio.

So, who is the best of the three?

Hamilton would be a good choice if you were involved in a close title battle with one or more similarly-paced teams.

Vettel would be good if you were running a team with a distinct car advantage and wanted to make the most of it.

Alonso would be good in either role, and therefore I consider him the best.

I don't really like this type of thread because the opinions expressed are purely subjective, more so than usual, but this more or less does it for me. The only caveat is I think Vettel will emerge as the undisputed best before long.

[P38 in workshop]

Monza 2008 alone made a good case for Vettel.2007 gave us Hamilton and Alonso in the same team and not a huge amount between a rookie and a two time champion.I suppose you would need to see these three plus Button in identical cars to be absolutely certain.I have reservations about including a willingness to accept a crash as the penalty of an unsuccessful pass as any indication of speed.

[kipper]

Whilst this is purely my subjective view; I think that Vettel is just about the best driver out there, although it is a close run thing and he will only improve over the next couple of seasons. That said, I think Hamilton is probably the more exciting driver to watch. I also think that Hamilton and Alonso are pretty much equal in terms of ability. Outside of these three, I think there is a gap to the 'next best' driver (probably Button), although in time that gap will be filled and the above triumvirate surpassed.

[duke_toaster]

I'd say it's a rock-paper-scissors situation, almost equal ability but with different strengths - Hamilton in a duel (as in, is there anyone else that would strike more terror in to the hearts of those who see them in their mirrors?), Vettel for metronomic performance, Alonso for squeezing the last drops from a car. Lewis Hamilton is generally better at the "crazy races" (thinking Monaco 2008 here), and Alonso isn't.

I'd put Button and Webber as this year's two drivers in the category below them, Button as a Vettel style efficiency driver. I'd speculate that Rosberg and Kobayashi would be up with Button and Webber at least if we saw them in a WCC medal quality car. Let's see what happens when/if Robert Kubica comes back, as we certainly hope he will be able to.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by strider

I don't really like this type of thread because the opinions expressed are purely subjective, more so than usual, but this more or less does it for me. The only caveat is I think Vettel will emerge as the undisputed best before long.

I think Vettel has emerged.... the last 4 races of last season was the apprentice maturing.

Part of the point of not passing people is that he will qualify the car on pole if its half way good enough (Top Gear Lap). I think that Webber is a really good driver and as good as anyone; except Vettel; in qualifying and that is how Vettel should be judged, and the car should be judged on how well Webber can qualify it as well.

[stripedcat]

I would say Alonso still the best. Don't forget that in 2005 and 2006 he didn't actually have the fastest car. He reminds me in some ways of Prost. Where he won't exactly race dramatically, but just enough to score points. Over a season this does have its advantages(e.g. avoiding crashes). He is pretty good in the wet(not the best driver but still quite good in those conditions). He can overtake(he took Hamilton, but remember his monster move on Schumi at Suzuka in 2005, around 130 R. He made Schumi look like an amateur that day!). Plus he has won in different teams (Renault, McLaren and Ferrari). He does seem to know how to develop a car well(just look at Ferrari last year). I know his year at McLaren was not good. He was surprised at Lewis' speed and racecraft I think. Plus he never integrated with the team. Sadly that and a few other controversies have blighted his character a bit. I was a bit of an Alonso fan, especially when he was taking on Schumi. I know he is not everyone's cup of tea, and it is interesting how he has gone from a hero to a villain in some ways.

For all my praise of Alonso, I will admit Vettel has progressed a great deal this year. I think he is the best qualifier out there. Yes, he has the Red Bull to do it, but his performances in qualifying are superb. Monza 2008 was when everyone stood and took notice of him. Probably his best race. He is very good in the wet(Monza 2008 and Korea last year). He knows how to open up a gap and be gentle with the car. For someone so young, he has shown remarkable maturity in his driving this year. Yes, he made a mistake in Canada(he probably knows he should have speeded up, after the final safety car as well), but other than that he made very few mistakes. Compare it to 2008 when Lewis pretty much had the Canadian GP in the bag and went into the back of Kimi!). We just need to see if he can race(i.e. overtake) in a future race.

At the moment I would put the order of drivers like this :-

1. Alonso
2. Vettel
3. Hamilton
4. Button

Hamilton is still a good driver. I think he is the best wet weather driver(when it is tipping it down throughout the race, not just a short period). He can hustle a slower car pretty good on race day. Can overtake. He is too rash though. Someone does need to calm him down a bit. Not sure his management helps.

Button is super smooth. He needs a well balanced car to be fast though. If he doesn't have the balance, then unlike Lewis he can't go fast! On a wet, going to dry track he is superb. He knows how to find the grip and be quick. Tyre preservation would be an advantage for Jenson, were it not for this year's Pirellis' characteristics, with regard to their durability.