Riddle me this/ Safety Car Problems (Merged)

Aquarius · 26 Mar 2006, 21:53 (Ref:1561642)

Are there new rules regarding Safety Cars?

I thought the Safety Car was to pick up the lead car, I thought they were to wave to tail enders through then pick up the leader.

Maybe 3 times over the weekend the Safety car effectively put a number of cars nearly a lap down.

What is the go?

Vanilla Dice · 26 Mar 2006, 22:04 (Ref:1561658)

New rule for 06 has the SC pick up whatever car it likes as leader, and doesnt have to wave them thru, past the SC. Winterbum got penalised for going past the SC as the team told him to go, not realising (dumkoffs!) that the rules had changed

The slower lapped cars are supposed to pull to the inside on the front straight so the horsepower heroes at the front can have an uninterrupted passage

mac · 26 Mar 2006, 22:31 (Ref:1561674)

It's not that hard!!!!!!!!!

I am fuming after yesterday's race. The reason the multi-car pile-up happened was because of the ridiculous situation where slower cars are allowed between the safety car and the race leader!

The current procedure is an utter abomination.

If the safety sar picks up anyone other than the leader, the cars between it and the leader MUST be waved through to the back of the pack until the leader is directly behind the safety car.

It works brilliantly in every other form of racing in the world, yet we are foced to endure this ludicrous situation in V8Supercar.

Reasons:

1) It puts everyone at a major disadvantage. The cars about to be lapped are pushed back into the leaders, and have their dices compromised by having to deal with faster cars.

2) The leader is disadvantaged by having a bunch of much slower cars in front of him rather than open track - giving his opponents behind him a better chance of attacking.

3) The way the current "system" works, if the safety car came out between first and second place, the leader would go around and get on the back of the pack with second place leading away from the safety car and the leader working his way through the whole pack to lap them all.

4) It just makes sense - the stupidity of yesterday's scene was laughable. And I reckon Max Wilson and anyone else that has seen American series' control of safety cars would have been shaking their heads in disbelief.

The net result of this incompetence saw a handful of cars racing amongst themselves ahead of the leader while simultaneously trying to make room for the leaders. Winterbottom got bumped out of the groove and was travelling slowly through the first chicane, trying to leave room for everybody. Fernandez tried to avoid him as Jason Richards tried to make a move on him.

Now we know VESA loves causing carnage to supposedly keep the meathead fans happy - but this is just plain stupid!

I would have liked to have seen someone explain that the current system works properly to Cam McConville as he was sitting propped up against the wall after yesterday's shunt ..... or to the poor Supercheap and Stone Brothers teams that have to repair some particularly bent metal.

FIX IT NOW!!!

RotorFan · 26 Mar 2006, 23:02 (Ref:1561691)

Interesting situation with Lowndes. Why would he wait for the safety car? He should have taken off and joined the back of the queue. Would have been a lap in front

Crazy rule that one... caused alot of carnage yesterday.

Aquarius · 26 Mar 2006, 23:15 (Ref:1561706)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanilla Dice

The slower lapped cars are supposed to pull to the inside on the front straight so the horsepower heroes at the front can have an uninterrupted passage

But what if the horsepower heros are in front of the safety car?

RotorFan · 26 Mar 2006, 23:44 (Ref:1561725)

Well said. What they have done makes motorracing more dangerous than it already is. There is no logical reasoning that I can see to support the new rule.

I think the teams need to take a stand against things like this. Refuse to race until rules are changed. If its a question of safety, everyone should agree.

Aquarius · 26 Mar 2006, 23:46 (Ref:1561727)

I have already started a thread on this under "riddle me this"

RotorFan · 26 Mar 2006, 23:50 (Ref:1561733)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquarius

I have already started a thread on this under "riddle me this"

This is why choosing an appropriate title for a thread is important.

sizzle · 27 Mar 2006, 00:04 (Ref:1561745)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanilla Dice

The slower lapped cars are supposed to pull to the inside on the front straight so the horsepower heroes at the front can have an uninterrupted passage

Which is what contributed to the last pileup when Fernandez had nowhere to go and turned down on Jason Richards exiting the chicane.

kmsport · 27 Mar 2006, 00:56 (Ref:1561786)

What if one of the cars (a la Britek) are in a ding dong battle with the pace car?

Chucky · 27 Mar 2006, 01:15 (Ref:1561799)

Is this a CAMS thing or something they invented themselves?

Aquarius · 27 Mar 2006, 01:19 (Ref:1561801)

It would be in the race meeting sub-regs, all 4 million pages of it

JABWOA · 27 Mar 2006, 02:02 (Ref:1561831)

How about the incident at turn 3 being caused by a slow car not giving enough room mid corner...

mac · 27 Mar 2006, 02:31 (Ref:1561850)

The slow car should have been waved through to the back of the pack - he should not have even been there!

I haven't yelled at my television that much in a long time - it was so obviously insane and plain stupid.

Silver GT · 27 Mar 2006, 03:00 (Ref:1561868)

Quote:

Originally Posted by RotorFan

Interesting situation with Lowndes. Why would he wait for the safety car? He should have taken off and joined the back of the queue. Would have been a lap in front

Crazy rule that one... caused alot of carnage yesterday.

I agree....Lowndes could have gone a lap up............whoever thought that rule up didnt think about the consequences.

I would imagine the only reason this rule came in was because thry really dont know whats going on during a race..

Maybe they should scrap the saftey car altogether

marcus · 27 Mar 2006, 04:46 (Ref:1561926)

it does seem strange that they cannot get it right to me.

it seems to be a simple procedure everywhere else in the world except here

racer69 · 27 Mar 2006, 06:42 (Ref:1561966)

Whats wrong with the safety car picking up whoever? The rule regarding slower cars getting out of the way is flawed though.....

The safety car picking up whoever evens it up for the leader, instead of the leader losing a hard earned lead because of the pace car, the potential to extend your lead evens it all up abit.

mac · 27 Mar 2006, 07:14 (Ref:1561985)

No it doesn't.

If the slower cars are between the leader and the safety car, the leader gets pushed back into the rest of the pack, while risking his car to lap the other cars before being assaulted by second place. All the while, second place gets a dream run as the leader forges a passage for him.

If those cars are waved to the back of the pack, the leader loses a time advantage, but now has totally clear track in front of him to try and build another gap.

marcus · 27 Mar 2006, 07:44 (Ref:1562013)

if anyone benefits from it it will be the car getting waved past the safety car , he can make up potentially a lap if he was close to being lapped at the time.

is this the reason for not picking up the leader , they possibly dont want to basically reward a slower car perhaps ?

PVDA · 27 Mar 2006, 08:02 (Ref:1562028)

OK once and for all here is one reason why the leader is not picked up behind the Safety Car.

1. Hypothectical crash occurs.
2. SC Boards and flags displayed cars begin to bunch up behind the lead car (lets pick Skaife).
3. Safety Car is waiting for the leader to catch up and is sitting in the pit straight.
4. Skaife peels into pit lane for a pit stop to take advantage of the reduced speed of the cars on track and manages to come back out before the 2nd placed car passes him so he's still leading but is now 10 cars back in the pack.

Right, the Safety Car picks up the leader OR THE NEXT CAR ON THE TRACK BEHIND THE LEADER IF THE LEAD CAR PITS other wise the cars who were behind the leader get a free pass so to speak and get to make up a lap in distance simply because the leader pitted.

Nearly every Bathurst had the same argument for years until a few drivers, team managers & commentators were explained how the rule works.

Of course all this could be avoided if they banned pit stops until all the cars have caught the Safety Car the way they do in NASCAR.

Now if the SC has to grab the cars immediately and cant wait for the leader (big crash major blockage, so on) then Race Control should have an observer at Pit Entry who will note which car/s remain on the track behind the lead should he pit and the cars will be waved through until that car (not the leader) catches up the SC.

Hope this helps.

Aquarius · 27 Mar 2006, 08:32 (Ref:1562052)

your a legend pvda

marcus · 27 Mar 2006, 08:50 (Ref:1562074)

whats wrong with the cars getting a free pass though , thats my stance on the matter ??

Yes I know if they were any good , or didnt crash earlier or didnt have mechanical failures then they wouldnt be a lap down , but I dont see any harm in giving them a free ride so to speak.

the more cars on the lead lap the better for us the fans as we could actually have a race.

maybe its just me but i didnt quite understand your last paragraph PVDA , but thanks for helping out but the system just doesnt seem to be any good (but then again what would I know

)

storyline · 27 Mar 2006, 10:50 (Ref:1562180)

You also have to take into consideration that it is possible for the leader to get caught in pit lane and lose positions - particularly at Bathurst - due to pi tlane exit being closed whilst the SC and train are passing pit lane exit.

The biggest problem with the SC in V8's is that no one in Race Control really understands the problems a SC can cause - they are too tied up with what is happening on the race track (and rightly so).

The one thing Race COntrol should be doing, but do not, is let things settle down before trying to redress any positional problems - if this means leaving he SC out for an extra lap or two then so be it - but in the long run, waiting this extra time can mean the difference between getting it right or wrong - and whilst there are so many people in RC all trying to control things, they will never get it right.

Like the saying goes - too many cooks etc etc etc

BFC · 27 Mar 2006, 11:04 (Ref:1562192)

be interesting in a reverse grid race if something happens 2/3 laps in while all the so called "faster" cars are at the middle or rear of field and SC comes out and picks one of them up ............do they have to give way to the "leaders"when they resume racing again?

racer69 · 27 Mar 2006, 11:59 (Ref:1562258)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac

No it doesn't.

If the slower cars are between the leader and the safety car, the leader gets pushed back into the rest of the pack, while risking his car to lap the other cars before being assaulted by second place. All the while, second place gets a dream run as the leader forges a passage for him.

If those cars are waved to the back of the pack, the leader loses a time advantage, but now has totally clear track in front of him to try and build another gap.

What about race 1? The Pace Car came out in between Lowndes and Kelly, giving Lowndes a big break. That would have been disadvantaging the leader?

This would be especially good in endurance races. Nothing brought the point home more than Crompton in the Sandown 500 last year saying that he didn't understand why Lowndes was going as hard as he was at the start as he was just using up his equipment, which would come to nought when a safety car came out.

Imagine if pushing that hard meant that the pace car came out in between first and second, having a go would extend your lead, and make it all worthwhile....

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