Is Rubens Deserving?

Kirk · 29 Jul 2004, 14:09 (Ref:1050915)

Ruben's performances lately have been less than spectacular and of course Schumi's brilliance has highlighted that fact. Is it just bad luck? Is RB on shaky ground at Ferrari? Despite their dominance, the Ferrari think tank pride themselves on being ahead of the game and is always in motion. With Michael's retirement on the near horizon, I'm sure they are somewhat concerned for 2005 and beyond. Any thoughts?

Tiptop · 29 Jul 2004, 14:24 (Ref:1050929)

RB is good for ferrari at the moment, due to him playing the correct way with team orders etc....as for 2005 and beyond once Schumi retires i'm in no doubt that RB will be replaced at Ferrari.

I used to think he was a great driver, but since joining ferrari I think he is just an average driver, not deserving of a front line team drive.

**Bononi** · 29 Jul 2004, 14:53 (Ref:1050946)

From what I've heard this is the best year for RB at Ferrari, in terms of relationship with the team.

BootsOntheSide · 29 Jul 2004, 14:57 (Ref:1050954)

Rubens has been conssitantly off Michael's pace this season, and it says something for the quality of the car that he would be comfortably leading the championship without Michael. Like Ralf and DC, I don't think he's really withstood the influx of new talent around 2000-2002 (Kimi, Juan, Mark, Fernando, Jenson), and I'm sure one of those guys would make a better #2. When is Rubens contracted until?

Redlake27 · 29 Jul 2004, 15:01 (Ref:1050956)

I think RB proved, on occasion, he can be as quick as MS. He also probably realises he is rarely going to beat MS in a straight fight,so he seems to be doing just enough to guarantee a podium. Reminds me of Patrese in 92.

I still think Rubens is a class act,but I see him ending his days in a Sauber.

spider · 29 Jul 2004, 15:09 (Ref:1050960)

Rubens has learnt from Irvine that it's better to be a number 2 at the Scuderia, than a number 1 at another team. He's paid a fortune, world famous, and has a car that is at least capable of winning every race. He's got a good career - he'll be at Ferrari for a long time yet - Jean and Ross always seem very happy with him. He's a solid driver, who I'm sure is as quick as nigh on anyone on the grid except Michael. Why would he want to join another outfit though? Michael will retire one day, and he knows that for at least one season after that the team will still be the team to beat, and as you say, if Michael wasn't there Rubens would be leading the championship!

They'll keep him for a good few years yet!

Kicking-back · 29 Jul 2004, 15:22 (Ref:1050968)

Rubens is onto a good thing as Ferrari number two - and is doing as much as he has to.

He's not the future of Ferrari though - and he knows that.

Wrex · 29 Jul 2004, 15:48 (Ref:1050989)

Quote:

Originally posted by Redlake27
I think RB proved, on occasion, he can be as quick as MS.

Very true, but the same can be said for about 10 other drivers.

Despite Micahels ability to put laps in when they count, raw speed is not where Michael kills all others. IMO, Montoya, Kimi and a handful of others are as quick or quicker than Michael over a lap.

Where Michael excels over Rubins (and all others from recent memory) is that e can do it lap after lap, race after race, season after season. He rarely runs hot and cold like others, and nothing seems to faze him.

Car is good, he'll win races. Car is slow, he will get a podiam. Race is a disaster, he'll get whatever is possible (and sometimes it seems even more).

In short, he never ever gives up.

WHEN Rubins is on it (Silvertone 2003 springs to mind) he is brilliant (but how many other drivers out there are like that - almost all). But unfortunately,he seems to be having less and less of them.

Should Ferrari be happy with him? Of course. They dont need him to win WDC, Michael does that. They need him to be quick enough to win when Michael cant, and take points off any other opposition. He drives well, and gives them everything they are looking for.

Should he be happy there? Hmmm, in one way no, as he will never beat Michael in the same car. Fact remains though he will never be better than second no matter what car he drove since he joined Ferrari so what difference would it make?

The only people disappointed, are those looking to see Michael toppled, or others deluded into thinking their driver would be doing better than 2nd in the same car.

Reality is, it would'nt matter who was driving that other car, at best, they would still be 2nd.

jhansen · 29 Jul 2004, 15:49 (Ref:1050990)

I would agree K-B. He wont stay longterm. But, as pointed out he is solid and has shown flashes of speed and brilliance at times. Interesting that he was much more competitive last year. I wonder if the F2003GA suited Ruben's driving style a bit better than the F2004?

ralf fan · 29 Jul 2004, 15:52 (Ref:1050994)

I think as long as MS is at ferrari Rubens will be kept... once MS retires it willl be the end of Rubens at ferrari as well...
He is a great no.2 to MS but not capable of challenging him consistantly... 6 wins in 5 years in those dominant Ferraris is not the greatest record...

garcon · 29 Jul 2004, 16:02 (Ref:1051001)

Is Rubens deserving?

Yes.

I can understand those who look at this year's races and say that Rubens has not been particularly spectacular. To an extent, they'd be right. But this season more than any other Michael has performed at an astonishingly high level, and I think it is this that has been the difference rather than Rubens under-performing.

Those who believe Rubens doesn't deserve the Ferrari number two seat should perhaps consider whether Coulthard or Ralf Schumacher would've done any better. It's pointless speculating as to whether Raikkonen or JPM would have done better (I'm sure they would) - I doubt either would have gone to Ferrari as Michael's #2 anyway. And it's only in the last year or so that other alternatives, like Alonso or Button, have begun to emerge.

A lesser man than Rubens would've had his spirit crushed by Michael's dominance. Instead, Rubens has stuck it out, and has done everything asked of him to help Ferrari towards yet another Manufacturer's Title. Some might say he has done that at the expense of a #1 seat - or at least parity - elsewhere and at the expense of GP wins. I tend to think he probably looked around at the other teams and concluded that his best chance of GP wins is at Ferrari, even as second fiddle to Michael.

jetsetter · 29 Jul 2004, 16:12 (Ref:1051014)

Rubens fits in nicely with the scheme of things at Ferrari at this point of time but if Schumacher decides he's had enough & walks away then i think Rubens days at Ferrari would be numbered.

Knowlesy · 29 Jul 2004, 16:58 (Ref:1051081)

I don't agree with the statement that whoever is in the 2nd Ferrari would finish second in a straight fight. TGF would maybe edge it slightly over a full season but I bet he'd be beaten in a fair few races. He just needs to be put under pressure which, let's face it, Rubens is never going to do all that often.

Give a Raikkonen or someone that second car!

I used to like a Rubens a great deal. In fact I probably still do, but I think he's a aste of the 2nd Ferrari.

Although Ferrari will see it differently to me I'm sure!

Kirk · 29 Jul 2004, 17:21 (Ref:1051104)

I agree Knowlesy and have stated many times what a shame it is that MS is not challenged often enough by his teammate. Even Schumi fans must feel slightly deprived that his awesome ability is displayed only periodically as he deems necessary. Sorry slightly off topic.

f1manoz · 29 Jul 2004, 17:24 (Ref:1051109)

Rubens appears to be happy with his lot. He gets on famously with his team, gets on well enough with his teammate, is driving the best car on the grid, has a few wins in his back pocket, gets paid an absolute fortune and does the job required by the team.

Kicking-back · 29 Jul 2004, 17:27 (Ref:1051112)

It still must eat away at him a bit though...

BootsOntheSide · 29 Jul 2004, 17:36 (Ref:1051123)

I wonder whether Ferrari would ideally have Rubens leaving at the same time as Michael. What he would offer is stability, experience and a good temperamnt, however I wonder if a lineup such as Alonso and Liuzzi might be their dream, especially if the latter shines at Sauber for a year or two first.

If Fernando (or Jenson, or whoever) were to perform to his potential, he'd trounce Rubens in a fairly demoralising way, but a young driver could learn from him.

gfm · 29 Jul 2004, 19:23 (Ref:1051207)

No. IMHO Rubens has not backed Michael up as he should. As good as he is, he's cruising, not battling. Disappointment of the year for me.

Wrex · 29 Jul 2004, 22:29 (Ref:1051386)

Quote:

Originally posted by knowlesy
I don't agree with the statement that whoever is in the 2nd Ferrari would finish second in a straight fight. TGF would maybe edge it slightly over a full season but I bet he'd be beaten in a fair few races.

I have no doubt Juan, Kimi and co would take races from Michael, but they will still loose over a season (thus, wont get better than 2nd).

Montoya has stuggled on occassion to beat Ralf, Kimi has been done over by Heidfeld, Alonso by Trulli. All of a sudden these 3 could find the consistancy to beat Michael? Dont think so.

Would it better for us viewers though - absolutely!

Quote:

Originally posted by BootsOntheSide
I wonder whether Ferrari would ideally have Rubens leaving at the same time as Michael. What he would offer is stability, experience and a good temperamnt, however I wonder if a lineup such as Alonso and Liuzzi might be their dream, especially if the latter shines at Sauber for a year or two first.

I agree. IMO Rubins will be at Ferrari for at least 1 season more than Michael. They wont want to swap both drivers at once, and it would also give Rubins that one chance to lead the team in his own right.

If/When he failed, thats the excuse they will use to dump him. Who knows, with Michaels shadow he may prosper.

GP Racer · 29 Jul 2004, 22:53 (Ref:1051402)

Although I have been disappointed with Rubens performance this year, I would still have to say that he is deserving.

He is still #2 in points, and the best second driver out there, but his main contribution seems to be his steadying influence on the Ferrari team. When so many other teams have been torn apart by driver squabbles and moves, Ferrari has remained constant, with no apparent stress. I think Rubens is a great team player, and he has accepted his role on this team. And Ferrari can just concetrate on winning because of it...

Turbo_Era · 30 Jul 2004, 00:08 (Ref:1051443)

I still remember the Jordan/Stewart days when Rubens was a man needing a top seat to show what he was capable of... No doubt he was good. His mistake? Sign with M.Schumacher scuderia (aka Ferrari).

Probably not a big mistake if winning a WDC isn't his ultimate ambition

It's very much like Fisichella today... the difference is that Fisico is going to a team where theoretically there's no number 1.. so yes, he can develop and dream higher.

Rubens is good and could be a lot better... but got to the point where he's just too old to develop more... Although he's drive in Suzuka last year was impressive... even telemetry wise!

Turbo_Era · 30 Jul 2004, 00:11 (Ref:1051444)

While Scheckter, Stewart and Jones thought he could be a contender... his fellow countryman Piquet said he wasn't and would mever be WDC material.

Well... we never know, in F1 anything can happen. I don't think it will.

DKGandBH · 30 Jul 2004, 01:36 (Ref:1051480)

Is Ruben Deserving...I Think YES...But there are also 4 or 5 others who would be equally deserving.

There are 3 possible future scenarios

1) MS and RB both leave Ferrari at the same time - I don't think that this will happen as the team would be looking for some continuation between the years (unlike other newish teams...!)

2) MS Retires before RB leaves Ferrari - I don't think that MS is going anywhere soon, but if he does, this will be RB only chance at a title (1 year after MS leaves, either RB wins and stays, or does not win and is replaced).

3) RB leaves Ferrari (Retires / Fired / Goes to be #1 at another team) - I think this will happen and RB will lose his chance at a World Title.

David.

gfm · 30 Jul 2004, 08:52 (Ref:1051733)

GP Racer - And Ferrari can just concetrate on winning because of it...
Make that 'and Schumacher can just concentrate on winning because of it ...'
Yes, I agree he's a great team player, a great no 2, etc. But no more a star. Imagine what Button or Davidson would do there.

Logrence · 30 Jul 2004, 14:26 (Ref:1051985)

Rubens is a solid second in the championship - what better can he do?!

I think people are asking a lot for him to beat Michael...

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