Aston's stop and go's-kosher or what exactly?

djb · 23 Jun 2005, 04:05 (Ref:1337910)

Don't know if this has been discussed in other threads, surely has, but watching the race live on the tube over here, with each stop and go (and stop stop stop and then go) I didn't properly see the actual offence. Hitting the pylons was it n'est ce pas?

My question for those who perhaps were there or who followed the race with more detail than I, were the offences obvious? Were other cars doing the same thing? Was it a question of the Astons consistently squeaking by the pylons more andmore and the officials got fed up and hence the "stop, stop, stop, oh and yes more stop while I sort of make to move out of the way, but then check my watch for another second before letting you go" treatment.

I didn't see replays of obvious cutting the corners, although of course did see the goofy Evil Kenevil jump that I think led to the longer stop and go.

opinions, observations...

I'm out of town for a few weeks soon, but wanted to put this down as it was bugging me during the race trying to figure out if it was legit or a bit of biased officiating going on. (oh yeah, didn't one of the Pesco's very clearly cut over the pitout line passing a slower car, with no penalty??)

cheers

Fab · 23 Jun 2005, 05:43 (Ref:1337938)

Quote:

Originally Posted by djb

Don't know if this has been discussed in other threads, surely has, but watching the race live on the tube over here, with each stop and go (and stop stop stop and then go) I didn't properly see the actual offence. Hitting the pylons was it n'est ce pas?

Yep, green cones, pylons... you name it... that was the "offense"...

Excessive speed in the pitlane too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by djb

My question for those who perhaps were there or who followed the race with more detail than I, were the offences obvious?

The answer is "yes" (when the cone is gone) ; but the question could be "was it an offense" ? or "did the pilot do it intentionnaly" ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by djb

Were other cars doing the same thing?

Yep (Pescarolos) and they got penalties too (Collard best lap canceled during qualies).

Quote:

Originally Posted by djb

Was it a question of the Astons consistently squeaking by the pylons more andmore and the officials got fed up and hence the "stop, stop, stop, oh and yes more stop while I sort of make to move out of the way, but then check my watch for another second before letting you go" treatment.?

First penalty : stop and go
Second penalty : three minutes
Third : could be definitely blackflagged

Quote:

Originally Posted by djb

it was bugging me during the race trying to figure out if it was legit or a bit of biased officiating going on.

Difficult to say, but I can't see why the officials would have been biased against AM...

Quote:

Originally Posted by djb

oh yeah, didn't one of the Pesco's very clearly cut over the pitout line passing a slower car, with no penalty??

And some others too...

garcon · 23 Jun 2005, 11:08 (Ref:1338203)

I'm sure there was no premeditated bias involved. Some cars were luckier than others though! Bit careless of Turner to be the guily party every time, I thought.

Quote:

First penalty : stop and go
Second penalty : three minutes
Third : could be definitely blackflagged

From RLM, and for the same offence, the penalty for a third offence by the same driver would have been disqualification of that driver, not the car. As it was, the third penalty for the 59 car (or was it 58?!) was for speeding in the pitlane, not "disrespecting the delimitation of the circuit" (ACO's chosen wording for taking all four wheels over the white lines...)

Dani Filth · 23 Jun 2005, 12:28 (Ref:1338278)

it was Sarrazin the third time i think ..

garcon · 23 Jun 2005, 12:33 (Ref:1338284)

Good spot - yes it was. Though RLM spent 10 minutes or so saying it was Turner before correcting themselves!

djb · 23 Jun 2005, 16:12 (Ref:1338456)

thankyou very much Fab for clearing all those questions up (il y avait beaucoup je sais...) and the others for more details.

One aspect of being getting overly zealous and getting gravel up on the track could be cut tires--ie, the vettes getting two. I read or heard somewhere that the gravel at LM is rougher or sharper that other places, so if true, I can completely understand them being strict. Not a bad system, I mean the 1,2,3 and maybe you're out, certainly keeps the drivers honest.

cheers

**Aysedasi** · 23 Jun 2005, 16:33 (Ref:1338476)

I'm sure the ACO haven't deliberately used sharper gravel........

ascarmarshal · 23 Jun 2005, 16:57 (Ref:1338496)

The ACO are known to bring in penalties for non-exsistant offences. When Bentley first returned to Le Mans in 2001 one of the cars was given a penatly for overtaking under yellows at Poste 70 (just before Mulsanne Corner). That offence did not happen as I happened to marshalling on that post and at no time did anyone overtake under yellow.

gwyllion · 23 Jun 2005, 21:13 (Ref:1338685)

This is what Darren Turner has to say about it.

Quote:

"I took the start in front of 230,000 spectators, and that's a great feeling," the Briton said, "I also managed to pull out a bit of a gap for us, including passing our sister car. Unfortunately, the stewards judged me to have hit some marker cones at different points around the circuit and gave me, not one, but two penalties - one of which was an excessively harsh three-minute stop-and-go.

"I assured the team that I hadn't touched anything, and hadn't driven around the track any differently to how I'd been doing it for the last two years, but the damage was done and we dropped right back in the timesheets. George Howard-Chappell and David Richards came with me to see the stewards to try and fight our cause, but there wasn't much we could do. They supported me fully, but I obviously felt really bad for Brabs, Stephane, our engineer Dave Wilcock and everyone on our car.

"To make matters worse, I was then given a further penalty for allegedly passing under a yellow flag. In fact, it was me who was passed by another car, but I was a marked man by then, so I just had to bite my tongue and continue to drive very conservatively for the rest of the race."

source: www.crash.net

djb · 23 Jun 2005, 23:02 (Ref:1338816)

I believe it was Hobbs on Speed when discussing the penalties, made the wise point of something along thelines of how its never the racers fault or that he may not have noticed that he hit the pylons. I'm glad to hear some of your pts of view, and now direct from the driver, but Hobbs statement was a good one coming from someone who's done LM 15 or 20 times, and he was being honest about how from a drivers pt of view, fault often isn't his.

Turner's version of the pylons is debateable perhaps, but the poor sod seems to have been bamboozled by a marshall error with the yellow flag, if this as well is an honest account.

Fab · 24 Jun 2005, 09:32 (Ref:1339053)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fab

Excessive speed in the pitlane too.

Sorry to auto-quote...

According to Daren Turner, there was no penalty for the car due to speed excess in the pitlane... fair enough.

I heard it on the spot form the french speaker - but I could have hear wrong, or the speaker himself might have mistaken, caught by the action...

moss corner · 24 Jun 2005, 13:28 (Ref:1339202)

Does anyone have or know where I could find the Turner "Evil Kenevil" jump?
Would make an excellent wallpaper pic.

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