Castle Combe 29/03

[imull]

I am not qualified to marshal on circuits and do not consider myself an expert just a couple of questions.

1) Are there always that many marshals at a circuit? One post I stood near to, there was about 6 or 8 people sitting watching 3 people deal (just) with an astra that died.

2) When the mini shed its wheel (at Quarry) there was no apparent movement. I can understand this as it was right in the firing line. Should this though have not been more of a reason to get the car shifted?

3) I could not see a yellow flag out during the time that the driver as in the car or leaving it. Was this just me or should there have been one out?

4) There were a couple of local cautions (stationary yellow?) but after tehy cars had cleared the area there did not seem to be a green flag in evidence yet cars were still overtaking. I thought that there was meant to be a green flag after the incident area or am I wrong here?

5) there were a few marshalls wearing black overalls with a wee bit of orange on them. Should they not be all orange?



I am not having a go, just curious and want to know if I am right or wrong...

[sss]

i cant comment on 1-4 as having not seen what happended i cant really comment on the whys and why nots, but 5 that sounds like a 'BOB' a marshal from silverstone, there is no set colours for overalls, all though general convention over in this country orange for marshals at most circuits, i dont know the histiorical reasoning behind there colour scheme.

[Snapper Baz]

...or how about the smoking Combe GT car that pulled off on the inside of Quarry that nobody went to untill after the race finished...or the lady marshal on blue flag who missed every overtaking manouver during her race but managed to half wave twice after cars had completed the pass!! (and that was noticed by three other people near me)Surely there must be flag training before a marshal goes on post or someone who thinks the person is up to the job before being left in charge of a flag???

[imull]

Was that the Chevvy powered thing? Wondered what happened to him. We were at the wrong end by then.

[Paul V]

The Chevy thing is a Royale, it was driven by Dave Krayem who has bought Bob Lights Stealth. He could not run the Stealth as they had bearing problems and could not risk ruining the engine (£20,000 ) before it could be fixed.
The problem with the Royale was simple, a brake duct pipe had come loose at the back. This caused the off and then the small fire.

[ss_collins]

on the exit of quarry and before the first chicane there are usually a couple of marshals in black, with orange bits. I'm a grade 2 rally marshal but does my grading let me be a race marshal?

[Dan Friel]

Anyone can marshal.. no matter what their experience is.

Although I didn't have a view of the incidents, it doesn't sound too clever, perhaps it was just new season rustiness.. but that's not an excuse for actions which could endanger competitors / public.

With regards to the orange probans, you don't need them - it's a personal choice thing.

It's a difficult balance, you shuold never use up all of your resources.. hence only three going to an Astra in a safe position. But then should you attempt to move a mini, with only three wheels left on it? Is it close to the tyre wall already, and is there a better place to put it? Every bit of Quary corner tyre wall is very hitable (as are marshals who are moving a car).

You should always go to a car as quickly and as safely as possible. Flagging isn't my forte, but I suggest that anyone can do it, as long as they're fully concentrating.. but to be good at it takes some time.

Hopefully you'll see some better marshalling throughout the year that will change your first impressions of marshalling at Combe!

[Scud]

I did the Mono race at Combe yesterday and found the Mashalling to be first rate.and all very much appreciated

[Lola]

who are you then scud?

[G Tanner]

I can't comment on all the postings, but regarding the 3 wheeled mini, I considered it to be in an unsafe position for marshals to go out to move.

Yesterday was a fairly quiet day and all the incidents that needed dealing with were dealt with in a professional manner.

[b1ackcr0w]

How was the air con Gary?

[b1ackcr0w]

imull - you sound like just the sort of chap who should come marshalling. A good marshal is always curious to understand how an incident works and whether it could have been done any better. Combe would be an ideal place to learn.

Go on - you know you want to

[G Tanner]

Air Con wasn't working but leaving the door open on the mini-bar helped.

[imull]

b1ackcr0w,

Dont you have to do some sort of course? Whats involved etc...

I go marshalling regularly, but prefer it dirty Would consider going to marshal at races but maybe not as regular as most others here...

G Tanner,

I assume that you were in charge of the area? If so, was that you with the clip board down by the esses (i think) when teh global gt car blew its engine?

[G Tanner]

No i was in race control so did not see that incident

[paul.hickman]

It's interesting to read the views of those who saw the same incidents but from differing perspectives...
* the 3 wheeled Mini - the car appeared in a relatively safe position (bearing in mind it was on a racing circuit), the driver was out - and moving it was not an option (often bad enough when there are 4 wheels on the things!), so why do you need marshals on the circuit? - and there was sufficient flag cover (waved yellow at Quarry centre, etc.),
* the fast on the straight, slow in the corners Chevrolet powered thing had pulled off onto the infield, driver out and to a place of safety quickly leaving his gently smoking beast. There was no need for marshals to attend - merely to keep a watching brief
* perhaps of greater importance to my mind, is the apparent lack of/incorrect blue flagging. 'Snapper Baz' where was this? - if it was anywhere near my post - I was observing at Quarry In - then please send me a PM.
Finally, what a great days racing! Superb weather, great team - and one of the best (close and clean) Formula Ford races seen for many a day.

[N M Ramsden]

I had a really good day on the bank. I was glad to hear that 20 trainee marshals signed on for there first meeting !!

As I was posted at Camp the appreciation of the drivers was great to see. Especially when the winners car came in and the drivers 'voiced' there thanks. It isn't much but it makes the getting up early, standing all day (enjoying the racing) and getting home worthwhile.

From what I could see the marshalling was good. Only a few dubious Red & Yellow flags that I could see.

[G Tanner]

I can only concur with Pauls comments. It would also be interesting to know where the questionable blue flagging was occurring. From a Race Control perspective everything appeared to be working well and it is worth pointing out that despite the number of FF's off in practice we still finished ahead of time in the morning and started the last race well ahead of schedule. Well done to everyone.

[M Greenslade]

The driver may well be out, but if the beast is gently smoking away there is every need (provided it is safe enough) for Marshals to attend, after all it might just catch fire - Balders

[paul.hickman]

That is precisely why there was a 'watching brief' - as it happened the rear brakes did have a small fire - just after the race had finished - and prompt action by the team aided by a 'foam' bottle did the trick! Safety of the team members is paramount + car in 'safe position' + gently smoking = watching brief...escalate if necessary (end of story for this observer).

[Dave Brand]

Originally posted by imull
I am not qualified to marshal on circuits and do not consider myself an expert just a couple of questions.

I'm a relatively inexperienced circuit marshal, but I'll give my opinions anyway........

1) Are there always that many marshals at a circuit? One post I stood near to, there was about 6 or 8 people sitting watching 3 people deal (just) with an astra that died.

In answer to the first part of the question, no. As for the second part of the question, it could be argued that there were too many marshals dealing with the incident. Normal practice is for the two marshals nearest to the incident to deal with it - one with a fire extinguisher, one to deal with the driver. While this is going on, the Incident Officer (IO) will be assessing the situation & deciding on further action. Committing all the marshals on a post to one minor incident leaves no cover for a second, possibly major, incident.

2) When the mini shed its wheel (at Quarry) there was no apparent movement. I can understand this as it was right in the firing line. Should this though have not been more of a reason to get the car shifted?

Don't confuse lack of movement with lack of attention. As it says on the ticket, motor sport can be dangerous; a live track is a pretty dangerous place to be. A big part of incident handling is risk assessment; if you know you can't move the car & the driver appears OK, there's no point in putting marshals in an unsafe position.

5) there were a few marshalls wearing black overalls with a wee bit of orange on them. Should they not be all orange?

Them BOBs get everywhere! The only stipulation I'm aware of on overall colour is that they must not be the same as any of the flags. Orange is preferred as it gives high visibility.

[Dave Brand]

Originally posted by Snapper Baz
or the lady marshal on blue flag who missed every overtaking manouver during her race but managed to half wave twice after cars had completed the pass!! (and that was noticed by three other people near me)Surely there must be flag training before a marshal goes on post or someone who thinks the person is up to the job before being left in charge of a flag???

Blue flagging is very easy to criticise.....it's very difficult to do!

Flag training is very thorough (not that I've done it!); however, training is only a small part of becoming a good flaggie. I'm always wary of criticising an individual without knowing the circumstances. It may well be that the person you saw was a trainee flag marshal doing her first day's flagging.

[Marshal]

I concur with Dave, Blue flagging isn't easy , but for me is the most rewarding of the marshals arts. Would generally add my agreement to comments above about the Astra and Mini, both seemed perfectly reasonable to me.

And Imull, you've missed most of the training days this year, but most of the learning is "on the job". If you volenteer as a novice, you'll get looked after

[Chigley]

From what I could see the marshalling was good. Only a few dubious Red & Yellow flags that I could see.

NMR, do you consider the prompt displaying of a slippery surface flag to be dubious when twice cars bottomed out heavily going over Avon Rise with accompanying sparks and a large plume of blue smoke erupting behind the car, plus the fact one car span immediately after the first incident into the infield and appeared to have a desire to take the esses from the infield rather than via Quarry.

Bearing in mind the distance between Foley and Avon Rise and the very high speed and horrenous accident potential of someone hitting oil there; it was far safer to be prudent and display the red/yellow rather than wait to see if a couple of cars lost it on oil or someone ended up in the crowd. I doubt if startline even saw the incidents at that distance so I'm curious as to how anyone there could comment on the wisdom of the flagging.

:confused: :confused:

[Chigley]

or the lady marshal on blue flag who missed every overtaking manouver during her race but managed to half wave twice after cars had completed the pass!! (and that was noticed by three other people near me)

Snapper, I know you have said that you have marshalled in the past, but did you ever flag as a grade.? The light conditions at CC were very peculiar with bright light and a heavy haze coupled with the fact that the majority of posts are at ground level (as against elevated platforms or banks). When cars are coming almost straight on to you in those conditions it is very difficult to see if cars are travelling at the same speed in procession or if one them is marginally quicker and gaining a tow.

Trying to blue flag sensibly, i.e. not waving at everything and hence detracting from the real purpose to the flag, is a very difficult art especially in those conditions. Personally in practice and when racing for position I keep the use of the blue flag to a minimum unless warranted. However when you have very quick and slow cars together or a driver who looks as though the alarm clock has not gone off yet then vigourous flagging is called for.

It is very easy to comment/criticise from afar but get down on that post and its a different ball game.