"Boredom" of Monaco - is it the track, or the drivers/teams?

[ljakse]

It's not lack of overtaking in Monacio that I missed. It's ATTEMPTING to overtake. Everybody says it's impossible to overtake in Monaco. It sure is - if you don't try.
What is it nowdays with drivers? Years ago we had overtaking in Monaco. Senna used to do it. Olivier Panis did it few times during that famous 'lucky&undeserved' win in '96. There is more...
What about today?
Kimi openly said he would try to overtake Montoya - if they were on some other track. TGF never tried to pass Trulli.
So, what is it? Are we witnessing 'italian football' (we mustn't receive a goal, and if we score one, even better) in F1? Is playing safe, when in points, better than risking a bit for more points? Does it mean we will never again see a battle for 1st place? After all, it's 'only' two points more than coming second, but 'lot more' than DNF IF SOMETHING HAPPENS?
Is that todays logic of teams&drivers?

[Damon]

You actually thought that race was boring! Come on, if overtaking is all you watch motorsport for why not go down your local Kart centre.

[Ralf's Girl]

Originally posted by ljakse
Is playing safe, when in points, better than risking a bit for more points? Does it mean we will never again see a battle for 1st place? After all, it's 'only' two points more than coming second, but 'lot more' than DNF IF SOMETHING HAPPENS?
Is that todays logic of teams&drivers?

I think you've hit the nail on the head there. They feel loathe to try to overtake because they'll be kicking themselves if they make a mistake and go off. Especially at a track like Monaco where it's better to play it safe and get the points.

Hopefully they won't do that at every race - if Raikkonen said that he would have tried to pass on another track, best for now to take his word for it and see what happens next time he (or another driver, for that matter) is in that position.

[Muppet]

The ITV commentary was awful. Did they all have hangovers from a big booze up night before?

ITV should sack that gormless twit James Allen. Get someone in who knows what they're doing. IMO

[NiceGuyEddie]

History shows that overtaking is impossible when the frontrunner won't give a little way. Or did you suppose Bernoldi kept DC behind him on pure driver merit? And DC was certainly attempting.

Attempting without a serious chance of succes is brainless driving. Besides an unsuccesful overtakingattempt tends to costs seconds in return.

So...its the track.

[ljakse]

Originally posted by Damon
You actually thought that race was boring! Come on, if overtaking is all you watch motorsport for why not go down your local Kart centre.

Maybe you missed quotaion signs on boredom?

Originally posted by NiceGuyEddie
History shows that overtaking is impossible when the frontrunner won't give a little way. Or did you suppose Bernoldi kept DC behind him on pure driver merit? And DC was certainly attempting.

Coulthard sure did try, and that was one of his rare actions that I appriciated.

Attempting without a serious chance of succes is brainless driving. Besides an unsuccesful overtakingattempt tends to costs seconds in return.

So...its the track.

And how exactly do you get a chance? By not attempting? By driving full second behind frontrunner and waiting for him to spin on the track to give you enough time to 1.close up the gap and 2. overtake him?
They were mostly waiting for the ones ahead to make mistake, and nobody tried to force them to.

[NiceGuyEddie]

just try to accept that in normal circumstances, overtaking is a no-go at Monaco. It's just not going to happen. That makes Mansells move on Prost during the 1991 GP that much more amazing.

[NiceGuyEddie]

Plus, I really suspect that tucking up behind a rearwing is not about attempting an overtaking manoeuvre, its about maintaining and increasing pressure in order to lure the specific frontrunner into a mistake.

[ljakse]

Originally posted by NiceGuyEddie
Plus, I really suspect that tucking up behind a rearwing is not about attempting an overtaking manoeuvre, its about maintaining and increasing pressure in order to lure the specific frontrunner into a mistake.

That's exactly my point too - but you can't just sit back and wait for the guy in front to make mistake. You MUST pressure him to do it. Otherwise, why would he make a mistake? It's an easy ride when nobody is pressuring from behind.

[Kex]

Basically Monaco is an outdated circuit and only remains on the calendar because of tradition/history/whatever. Also another place for 'celebrities' to be 'seen' at, and for free as well...

[jonboyG]

I'm with Damon. I thought that the Monaco GP was a great race - no, there wasn't any overtaking, but that doesn't mean that it was boring.

And if you'd ever been to the race there, you'd want it to stay on the calendar too.

[Yoong Montoya]

Didn't Montoya try to overtake Ralf after the safety car? He closed right up on Ralf and had a quick look into the first corner but couldn't do it. He didn't overtake, but at least he tried to.

Hopefully if Montoya and Raikkonen find themselves in 1st and 2nd and close together, we should see Raikkonen have a go at Montoya. On any other track except Monaco, that's what would have happened.

I think Schumacher had a couple of gos at overtaking Coulthard in last year's race in the closing laps, but I'm not sure. But I really don't think he let Coulthard win because of Austria

[Bob Irvine]

Cmon guys.your saying it wasnt boring,with no overtaking ,what exactly was exciting about it then,the usual procession? The pit stop strategy?zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[ttc]

The fact that MS/Ferrari didn't win...

Remember the definition for a BORING race is if MS/Ferrari wins. No matter how much overtaking/activities happened behind MS/Ferrari win, it's AUTOMATICALLY a BORING RACE.

[bcobbus]

The F1 race was OK, nothing really special, nothing really bad. Seeing Montry win was great, and there where some good moments, nothing wonderful.

Now the F3000 race on the other hand! WOW! That was a race indeed! Crashes, drama, bad overtaking moves, crashes, bad overtaking moves, crashes, and one of the wierdest finishes in some time! They even crashed after the race going to park there cars by the podium!

[Lee Janotta]

Why try to overtake when you can pass the other guy on fuel strategy?

[Ralf]

If you forget about who won for a moment & just judged the race purely on how many passes & crashes there were, it would be the most uneventful & dullest race in the history of F1.

But add in the drama of 2 guys going for their 2nd win, their first at Monaco where everyone wants to win, the closeness of the championship, the excitement, the glam, the buzz, the history etc, is what makes the race great.

It's contrast to all the other races also makes it unique...
You say the race is dull?
How dull would it be without it???
Every other track more or less the same....

That's why I miss the old Hockenheim so much

[Mr V]

Originally posted by NiceGuyEddie
History shows that overtaking is impossible when the frontrunner won't give a little way.

NGE, not entirely impossible...witness Mansell on Prost exiting the tunnel in 1991, however, i concur, it is bloody hard and maybe too much of a risk to try.

[f1manoz]

In todays' F1 everybody plays safety first. Plus the cars prohibit overtaking. And it's nearly impossible to do it IN THE DRY.

But I didn't think the race was that boring. It was a tense race, seeing if anyone would screw up and throw away a win/podium.

[Snrub]

The track makes it utterly impossible.

Now if you want to talk OTHER tracks, yes F1 cars themselves are part of the problem. Track layout elsewhere is a big problem too.

[Armco Bender]

Would you rather watch F1 cars race at Monaco or Spa?..I rest my case.......

[Korr]

Racing, strategy, and passing should be done on the track, not in the pits.

Monaco....*yawn

[Sodemo]

Its the cars.

[DNQ]

I am sorry, but you can pass at Monaco just as easily as you can at Hungary or San Marino. Don't believe me? Look at the stats of overtaking from any of the last few years, Monaco comes out on top of some of the others. At least in the principality you can try and force a mistake. And there are half chances at overtaking at Turn 1, Loewes, towards the Chicane, and even a quarter chance on the run downhill to the right hander that proceeds the hairpin.

[golem]

Personally, they could pull Monaco off the calander and I could care less. Just replace it with a wider street circuit and I'd be happy, or maybe even a mountain road styled circuit (Pfft, yeah right).

Regardless, the track and cars contribute. Monaco is hot on circuit for starts, getting close requires loss of downforce and on a tight twisty circuit with a lot of armcos this is bad.