BTCC of yesteryear

[Sodemo]

I thought I might create a thread to discuss the BTCC of the past as I myself have been guilty of straying into past history talk in a few threads.

https://www.autosport.com/btcc/news/...ll-astra-coupe

This article caught my eye. Neal stated that after the first few rounds of 2001, the Astra was pegged back by having a bolt inserted under the throttle pedal which only allowed 70-80% throttle. This kinda blew my mind a bit as dont think this was ever disclosed as a performance balancing measure.

[Mondeo Man33]

Yes a very interesting read. I’d heard this mentioned before (“we weren’t even running at full throttle” etc) but I’m not sure I ever really believed it until reading this!

[Sodemo]

Well in those days "performance balancing" wasn't really a thing, not in the same way they have now. OK you could argue that in supertouring the different min weight of FWD, RWD and AWD was a performance balancer in a basic sense, but not in the same way as today when engine performance, aero performance, weight all come into play.

[Mondeo Man33]

Yes it’s somewhat more complicated now for sure. I can remember when Charlie Cox demonstrated what a weight penalty looked like by using bags of sugar - it probably wasn’t too far removed from what was actually used in the cars at the time!

[S griffin]

I think it’s good to have a thread about the BTCC of the past. There’s plenty to discuss How far back do you want to go?

I saw that article on the Astras too. Success ballast was already around at the time. So the throttle wound back for quali was interesting. I wonder if Vauxhall agreed to it because they knew it wouldn’t make much difference?

[CarfanLUFC]

My personal favourite years are 88 to 95. The late 80's saw the last of the Group A cars but what iconic cars they were. Especially 89, plenty of RS500's on the grid.

In 90 some of the Group A grids were a bit thin but the racing was still good.

The racing was also excellent in the early years of the 2.0 litre class and Class B (the birth of super touring)

After 95 I felt the cars became a bit too much, although 98 is seen as the Zenith of Super Touring and some of the racing was superb it's the early days of the category that I enjoy the most.

Genuine mix of professional and Gentlemen drivers as well.

[CarfanLUFC]

Did Frank Sytner ever have a teammate he got on with? Mike Smith, James Weaver, Kurt Luby all felt the Sytner anger...................Weaver and Luby for the having the sheer audacity to out race Frank on the track

And let's not forget a certain stalwart of the series in the 80's....

"These turkey's, they're gonna have to start getting up early in the morning if they want to take me and my team on"

[Mondeo Man33]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I think it’s good to have a thread about the BTCC of the past. There’s plenty to discuss How far back do you want to go?

I saw that article on the Astras too. Success ballast was already around at the time. So the throttle wound back for quali was interesting. I wonder if Vauxhall agreed to it because they knew it wouldn’t make much difference?

That’s a good question! You’d think that a team with an advantage wouldn’t want to give it away, but like you say maybe they knew it wasn’t going to make any difference..

[Mondeo Man33]

Originally Posted by CarfanLUFC

Did Frank Sytner ever have a teammate he got on with? Mike Smith, James Weaver, Kurt Luby all felt the Sytner anger...................Weaver and Luby for the having the sheer audacity to out race Frank on the track

And let's not forget a certain stalwart of the series in the 80's....

"These turkey's, they're gonna have to start getting up early in the morning if they want to take me and my team on"

I don’t remember hearing about Sytner having a beef with Matt Neal, but I think they were only team mates for one race so he didn’t have much chance!

Was it Dave Brodie who said that? He certainly was a character! His black Sierra Sapphire was a fantastic looking car, I wonder where it is now?

[S griffin]

Didn't Pinkney buy the Sapphire for 92, although he didn't actually race it?

[touringcarnut]

Discounting the Group A cars, I watched the BTCC at brands in 1990 and the 2 litre cars seem slower than the current NGTC lot?

It might be my eyes deceiving me as obviously the late 90s cars were quicker than the current and past BTC spec but is there are comparison of these cars racing together?

[touringcarnut]

Originally Posted by CarfanLUFC

Did Frank Sytner ever have a teammate he got on with? Mike Smith, James Weaver, Kurt Luby all felt the Sytner anger...................Weaver and Luby for the having the sheer audacity to out race Frank on the track

Winning the 1988 Championship in part because of the class system might have got to one's head! Great racer and character all the same

[CarfanLUFC]

Originally Posted by touringcarnut

Winning the 1988 Championship in part because of the class system might have got to one's head! Great racer and character all the same

Without doubt, good driver as well which I didn't really give him the credit for in the original post.

He would of course have easily won at Silverstone 91 had the race not been abandoned for the rain storm. Would have been a nice win for the unsponsored privately entered M3 from Pyramid.

[steve_r]

Sytner was a great character. Especially when he was upset with his teammates - the double act with him and Mike Smith was often hilarious from my vague recollections.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by CarfanLUFC

Without doubt, good driver as well which I didn't really give him the credit for in the original post.

He would of course have easily won at Silverstone 91 had the race not been abandoned for the rain storm. Would have been a nice win for the unsponsored privately entered M3 from Pyramid.

I'm not so sure about that, Andy Middlehurst was closing fast in the Sierra Cosworth on wet tyres...

[CarfanLUFC]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I'm not so sure about that, Andy Middlehurst was closing fast in the Sierra Cosworth on wet tyres...

Good point, it's easy to forget what a solid job Middlehurst did that in Sierra in 91. Unfortunately never really built on it in BTCC terms. Successful in Saloons though

We also had the Mitsubishi on track in 91, two different cars actually and also that Rover which had no factory support.

Shame Mitsubishi didn't stick around. I remember Gravett really struggling early season in the Sapphire as well.

[andy97]

Shouldn’t this thread be in the historic section?

[BTCC frog]

As a relatively new BTCC fan (I only started watching it in 2015), I would be interested to know what you think was the best season in the history of the BTCC was. I have all the season review DVDs since 1994, and have so far watched 1994, 1995 and all of them since 2007, and of those I think the best year was 2016 or 2017. I know 1992 is thought of as one of the best seasons ever, but I would be interested to know what other BTCC fans think.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by CarfanLUFC

Without doubt, good driver as well which I didn't really give him the credit for in the original post.

He would of course have easily won at Silverstone 91 had the race not been abandoned for the rain storm. Would have been a nice win for the unsponsored privately entered M3 from Pyramid.

That race has always intrigued me. There’s a few minutes of highlights on the season review, which includes Cleland’s off and Sytner taking the lead prior to the red flag. Also there’s a bit of footage on Tales from the Tarmac, where I notice Ayles also on wets was second behind Fearless Frank, but I want to know more about this race

The late Frank de Jong’s site carries a bit more info, but not enough. Has anyone got a full race report? I want to know how the race developed and who was still running at the end and in what order prior to the controversial countback

[Mondeo Man33]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Didn't Pinkney buy the Sapphire for 92, although he didn't actually race it?

I didn’t know that, very interesting!

[CarfanLUFC]

Originally Posted by BTCC frog

As a relatively new BTCC fan (I only started watching it in 2015), I would be interested to know what you think was the best season in the history of the BTCC was. I have all the season review DVDs since 1994, and have so far watched 1994, 1995 and all of them since 2007, and of those I think the best year was 2016 or 2017. I know 1992 is thought of as one of the best seasons ever, but I would be interested to know what other BTCC fans think.

That's a good question. 92 gets mentioned a lot because of the finale. In reality, BMW were actually way off the pace at the start of the season. Harvey and Bellm only just made the top 10 at the first round as the Vauxhalls and Toyota's dominated. It wasn't until the BMW clicked and Harvey did his hell on earth 5 wins a in row run that made it a 3 horse race, although mid season it looked like Allam was in the hunt as well

93 was supposed to be Soper's year but it surprised a lot of people how quickly smoking Jo got used to British circuits, shame also the Mondeo only appeared in the 2nd half.

Modern BTCC (although I really enjoy it) is deliberately set up to be close so it's no surprise when the lead swaps around there is 2 or 3 drivers still in contention at the final meeting. That said, I can't think of a poor season for years, they have all been entertaining and that's all you can really ask for.

[S griffin]

92-93 were probably peak looking back. I remember last year re watching the 92 review and it was a great season. Plenty of great racing, relatively clean, great manufacturer entries, plus very talented privateers who could mix it with the works cars. Although definitely the BMWs, Vauxhalls and Toyotas left the others for dead.

[S griffin]

As for 93, obviously you had the BMW domination at the beginning, which was mainly down to their Yokohama tyres. By round 8 they’d only lost one race due to the Michelin tyres suiting the awful Renault 19s in the wet. Then after that we of course only saw one more BMW win, but thankfully their FWD rivals took points off each other and we had so many different winners at the end. Of course if the Mondeo was ready earlier it would have been a different story, as Radisich was the only other driver apart from the BMW drivers to win more than once. Incidentally we had six new winners that season, a feat not matched till the ultra competitive 2018. Yes 1993 was a great season too

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by andy97

Shouldn’t this thread be in the historic section?

Well the historic section is called “historic racing today” and seems to be more about modern historic series and not discussing races and events of old.

I don’t see he problem of having a specific thread talking about the history of the sport.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Well the historic section is called “historic racing today” and seems to be more about modern historic series and not discussing races and events of old.

I don’t see he problem of having a specific thread talking about the history of the sport.

https://tentenths.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=12