Ralf/Alonso incident (merged threads)

[Asp]

The first of the two tunnel incidents - sensible and informed discussion: Was Alonso stupid to pass round the outside? or was Ralf being obstructive?

Alonso certainly believes it was Ralf's fault - but we saw a few years ago what happens if the backmarker moves onto the marbles in the tunnel (Sato), so why should either driver move to the oustide - and why not wait?

[Damon]

Same as the other 'incident', a simple misunderstanding.

You've gotta love Alonso the bad-ass though, managing to gesticulate to Ralf whilst in the middle of the accident .

[Knowlesy]

And suggesting in his interview that maybe Ralf enjoyed watching high speed accidents (or words to that effect!).

Ralf should have moved to the outside, but Alonso didn't exactly make the greatest decision either.

[ralf fan]

i guess it was both at fault... RS shouldnt have slowed... but on the outside of the tunnel with all the debris and it wasnt for position... RS would have had to back out at one point or another.. wasnt great thinking from Alonso as well

[M Coupe]

Look at the speed differential, Alonso had little choice, yet again Ralf causes an accident. I hope the Stewards have a word with him as well!

[Gt_R]

I don't really think it's the part of Ralf...

The sad thing is that, a backmarker thinks differently from the lapping driver. Which is not unusual considering that they are basically seeing things from different perspective.

Ralf thinks he wants to let Alonso through with minimal obstruction and honestly, he chose a decent spot. Aloso thought he could get through and went for it, only to spear wide and into the barrier.

If Alonso didn't know that would happen, how can we expect Ralf to know?

Could Ralf had waited later? Sure, he could do it at the chicane, but it would compromise Alonso's line and speed into the chicane.

Could Ralf let Alonso through anywhere between the place he chose and the chicane? Not really, because it's the exit and the guys would be blinded by the light.

[M Coupe]

The worrying thing is that Alonso said Ralf sped up when he was alongside!

[Dani Filth]

the only way to be sure . is to get the telemetry . does teh marshals have access to it if they request it ??
i think it was Alonso's fault .. more then likely RS would have let him under braking ..

[Knowlesy]

Yeah, Alonso said that Ralf pushed him wide when he "sped up". When did he speed up?

A bizarre comment on a bizarre day! I'm off to bed!

[Gt_R]

Ralf was on the line and left a lot of room...and Alonso just rammed into the wall after passing Ralf

[Sodemo]

The way I understand it is that Ralf was ahead going into the tunnel with Alonso breathing down his neck, Ralf slowed half way through the tunnel, by which time Alonso was alongside, according to Alonso, Ralf then stood on the gas and sped up, forcing Alonso to stay wide.

[GP Racer]

This is just another reason why I'm not sold on Alonso.

After his two incidents last season, one, where he ran through the yellow flag in Brazil, and into Webbers wreck, and two, where he braked early, and sent DC flying off the track, and now this. To me, he is wreckless, and doesn't use his head. I think he has alot to learn yet.

IMO, he had no business making that move on Ralf. To go into the marbles, at 170MPH, knowing how sharp and fast the apex in that tunnel changes, I mean cmon, what are you thinking? Can't blame ralf for this one...

[M Coupe]

Ralf should have been the one to move off line as he obviously had an car with problems.

[freud]

Originally posted by GP Racer

IMO, he had no business making that move on Ralf. To go into the marbles, at 170MPH, knowing how sharp and fast the apex in that tunnel changes, I mean cmon, what are you thinking? Can't blame ralf for this one...

WHAT?? I hope you were following the race. Ralf was a backmarker who, in the first place, was supposed to let Alonso go at the start of the tunnel. He knew perfectly well that Alonso and Trulli were neck to neck with the Ferrari of MS and I bet it must be so frustrating for Alonso to get stuck behind a very slow backmarker in the tunnel and waste potentially important seconds in his battle with MS.

[jetsetter]

I think it's hard to know who's at fault until all the evidence is presented with telemetry etc. although the question has to be asked of Alonso as to why he had to make the move there knowing how slippery it is off line going through there.

[hamsmith]

I loved the interview with Alonso:
Q: are you saying ralf is to blame?
A:yes, just like every accident he is involved in.

Very good.

[GP Racer]

Originally posted by freud
WHAT?? I hope you were following the race. Ralf was a backmarker who, in the first place, was supposed to let Alonso go at the start of the tunnel. He knew perfectly well that Alonso and Trulli were neck to neck with the Ferrari of MS and I bet it must be so frustrating for Alonso to get stuck behind a very slow backmarker in the tunnel and waste potentially important seconds in his battle with MS.

I don't know if Alonso was close enough to Ralf before entering the tunnel, that Ralf should have gotten out of his way. But the fact is Ralf was in front of him in the tunnel, and Alonso should have shown some restraint, and waited to make his move after the tunnel.

The fact that Alonso made such a rash move, in such a bad spot on the track, looked to be entirely his fault...

[Mr V]

Originally posted by M Coupe
Look at the speed differential, Alonso had little choice, yet again Ralf causes an accident. I hope the Stewards have a word with him as well!

I have to agree with this comment, although not actually hitting anyone this time, this is Rafe's 5th altercation with another driver in 6 races, and everyone of them have looked dubious from Rafes point of view.

[Tweed]

I don't know why it isn't blatantly obvious to everyone that it was Ralf's fault? You either let a car past just after Portier, as soon as you're in the tunnel, or at the chicane. At NO point whatsoever do you slow in the middle of the tunnel when you are approaching the kink, there's only a safe line for one car. I can't blame Alonso because when you're lapping someone you can't be half-hearted about it, what was he expected to do, slam on the brakes and follow Ralf behind??

[Damon]

Ralf had supposed gear box problems which would explain his lack of speed in the middle of the tunnel. That's why I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt on this occasion.

[GP Racer]

Originally posted by Tweed
I don't know why it isn't blatantly obvious to everyone that it was Ralf's fault?

Simply because its not blatantly obvious.

Was Ralf ignoring any blue flags? How close was Alonso going into the tunnel to Ralf? Did Alonso make his move to the outside before Ralf could get out of his way? Was the speed differential between the two all that great? Could Alonso shown alittle more patience and waited to make his move?

Alot of questions need to be answered before we really can place blame. Alonso using Ralfs past incidents is no help...

[Tweed]

ok, but I'm assuming being tucked up on the inside of the track isn't Ralf's normal line.........
gearbox problems or not, he was aware he was being lapped. Gearbox problems may slow you down when you're trying to accelerate, but they won't make you accelerate when you're slowing down!

[ralf fan]

Alonso was probably not close enough at the beginning of the tunnel... Rs did have a gear box problem so maybe thats why he suddenly slowed down... Alonso meanwhile should never have gone off line on the outside.. he could have waited...

[ralf fan]

Originally posted by Tweed
Gearbox problems may slow you down when you're trying to accelerate, but they won't make you accelerate when you're slowing down!

i thought the problem was that RS SLOWED down and not SPED up... geez anything to blame the guy!

[GP Racer]

I think the one thing we must remember about Monaco, is that it's simply very hard to get out of the way! There just isn't alot of room and time to pull out of line.