European Touring Car Championship

Hi all,

I am interested in information, thoughts and recollections of the 1986 European Touring Car Championship, particularly in regards to the "invasion" of Aussie Holden Commodore, that car that looked like Opels but didn't quite sound like them.

[alfasud]

White Knight, there's a good European Touring Car site here:
http://www.euronet.nl/users/in004021/
http://go.to/touringcars/ <----- Official Link with annoying popup window.

1986 cars are here.....
http://www.euronet.nl/users/in004021...86%20Cars.html
Funny thing about the Holden Commodore, is that the Opel it was based on, had the camshaft in the right place, but it kind of fell off on the way south......
http://www.euronet.nl/users/in004021...70%20Cars.html

You will also want to check the 1987 cars, for the 87 Holden Commodore. I seem to recall a few impressive displays of performace in 86/87, but also a few DNF's. No doubt that would have improved with a bit more experience in the European races.

Yeah, thanks for that ALFASUD. Actually I had checked out those sites some time back. I was hoping some of our European friends may have seen the the car run. That team went onto win Bathurst in '86, no doubt the ETCC must have sharpened their skills.

[racer69]

I believe the car that Allan Grice used in Europe during 1986 was run by Alan Docking Racing in the BTCC 1987 for Mike O'Brian, and the car Brock and Moffat raced early in 1986 was used in the 1986 Tourist Trophey at Silverstone by Vince Woodman and John Cleland, in the same colours but called an opel instead.

Grice did so well in 1986, he had a chance to win the first 3 rounds, at Donnington in round 2, Grice was leading from Brock and they were both pulling away, until the rain came.

[Peter Mallett]

1973 to 1986 were the glory years for me. When they brought in the M3 and the Sierra Cosworth the whole thing lost its interest.

From the BMW/Ford battles in Group 2 to the Group A Rovers of 86 and of course the "Opels" this was the Touring Car Championship. I'm not going to get all misty-eyed here but I still wonder exactly what happened to change it and eventually lose it.

[DAVID PATERSON]

I thought Group A was a great class, except for one fatal flaw. The allowance for just 500 homologation specials, that's what gave us the M3, RS500 and GT-R and the ensuing domination was what killed the class.

If weight had been worked out on a horsepower basis rather than engine capacity it would have worked out much better as well.

Engine output from a Sierra and a VL Commodore was similar but the poor old Holden was lugging around an extra three kilos.

When the rules were formulated no-one realised that the potential of the turboes despite the engine size multiplication factor.

[Peter Mallett]

Well Group A started in 1983 and we got the Rovers and Volvos etc. As White Knight says, the need for only 500 cars for homologation caused the problem.

Silverstone '86 was mentioned earlier. I think I'm right in sayingt that the Tourist Trophy that year was won by Denny Hulme and Vince Woodman(?) in a Bastos TWR Rover.

My earlier post should have read three hundred kilos not just three

[alfasud]

As has already been stated, the 500 evolution cars and Turbos were the problem. I thought the Holden and the M3 were reasonably well matched, but the Sierra RS500 and Skyline GTR were from another planet. Instead of getting rid of the Turbo's, most countries went their own way with their own rules, giving closer racing but often very boring from a technical and visual point of view as all the cars are the same.

I think ones "glory" years, depends on what type of car you support. As an Alfa Romeo fan, 1973 was the end of a very successful period for the GTA and GTAm. Rules changed, the fuel crisis had a negitive impact on all racing and Alfa became more interested in sports prototypes. Now for a Capri fan, the mid 70's would be much more interesting.

[Peter Mallett]

Whether a Capri or BMW fan, the Group 2 rules were (IMO) probably the best for an international championship. I suspect that Alfa etc. would have continued if they had the cash. Indeed they came back at the end of the seventies with the GTV6, a highly technical and possibly underrated machine.

[alfasud]

The Alfa GTV6 was introduced around 1981, so it was a bit late for Grp 2. It was a consistant winner in Group A 2.5L class, at least until the M3 arrived. I'm sure Assuie ten-tenths members rememeber Alan Jones driving the GTV6 in Australian Touring cars series.

Maybe you were thinking of the Alfetta GTV 2.0L (twin cam 4 cylinder engine) which was raced in Group 2?

As for International appeal, I'm not sure Group 2 was run widely outside of Europe, but both Australia and New Zealand ran Group A series and endurance races.

[Peter Mallett]

Group 2 (unless I'm mistaken) ran to 1983 when Group A replaced it. I do recall the Alfetta GTV. I'm trying to recall the BTCC driver who spent most of his career in Alfas of some kind. He was sponsored by Napolina. John Dooley(?).

The point I was making was that there were many marques competing but some didn't have the machinery or the finance. That is why Group A was invented initially and why only 500 editions were needed.

Jaguar had some success at the end of Group 2.

I think you are right about the geography but I still think that the basis of G2 would have worked anywhere.

In Australia Group A spec cars ran as a separate class at Bathurst in 1984 including two TWR Rovers. From 1985 on it was full blown Group A. Prior to that Australia at least ran Group C (not to be confused with Sports Cars) from 1973.

[alfasud]

Not all countries adopted Group A in the same year. I think it was 1982 for ETCC. WRC had a transition year (or two 82,83?), where Group 1, 2 and 4 cars could run alongside Group N, A and B.

The Aussie Group C Touring car class was similar to Group 2 in some respects. If you look at the BMW 635CSi and Mazda RX7 from the early 80's Aussie tourers, they were very similar to the Group 2 cars.

Peter, I did a web search for "Jon Dooley Alfetta GTV", but only found 1983, 1985 Group A results. If you have any good links to Alfa's racing in ETCC, BTCC in early 80's I'd be interested. I'd be particularly interested in links or books for the Alfasud racing in the same period (I already have "The Alfasud" by David Owen), and books on Touring car racing (and web sites) in general for that period -- good technical data preferred to glossy pictures.

Maybe these guys can help you

http://www.alfaclub.org.au

[alfasud]

Thanks White Knight, I should have said I was aware of most of the Alfa club web sites, and that one is quite a good one (Lloyd Clonans Alfa Tech pages are very informative).

What I am looking for is historical data. It's not hard to find people who are still racing these cars (Alfasud and Alfetta GTV) today, but detailed historical data is a little harder.

I'm also on the Alfa Digest and a couple of other mailing lists.

Tim's Rauens website is another good one, with a good page on the Alfasud Trofeo series in the 70's:
http://home.t-online.de/home/Rauen/
http://www.8ung.at/alfasud/trofeoe.html

But I'm more interested in Groups 1,2,A and N.

[KA]

Originally posted by Peter Mallett
Group 2 (unless I'm mistaken) ran to 1983 when Group A replaced it. I do recall the Alfetta GTV. I'm trying to recall the BTCC driver who spent most of his career in Alfas of some kind. He was sponsored by Napolina. John Dooley(?).

Yes, Jon Dooley- he ran Alfasuds, GTV6s and 75 (both V6 & Turbo) backed by both Napolina & John West under the Alfa Romeo Dealer Team banner- there also was a second car driven by Rob Kirby- his car carried originally the John West colours, which later went onto both cars

Dooley's last BTCC appearance with an Alfa was a one-off at the final round in 1988 with a V6-engined 75

[KA]

Originally posted by racer69
I believe the car that Allan Grice used in Europe during 1986 was run by Alan Docking Racing in the BTCC 1987 for Mike O'Brian, and the car Brock and Moffat raced early in 1986 was used in the 1986 Tourist Trophey at Silverstone by Vince Woodman and John Cleland, in the same colours but called an opel instead.

Grice did so well in 1986, he had a chance to win the first 3 rounds, at Donnington in round 2, Grice was leading from Brock and they were both pulling away, until the rain came.

The Brock/HDT car did run at the TT as a Holden- although entered under the GM Dealer Spoort name rather than Mobil Holden Dealer Team

Both Commodores were very competitive in their ETCC outings-although Grice in particular had a pretty tough season . He was running on a very tight budget, and had to use a lot of paying co-drivers over the year. The car also had quite a few accidents - early season co-driver Grahame Bailey put it into the gravel a couple of times, and at one round I vaguely recall Grice being taken out by a spinning backmarker whilst involved in a battle for the lead....