Merlyn Mk 4

[kryten]

I’ve had a car/chassis sitting my garage for years I’m looking for some info on it . I know it’s a Merlyn mk4 and it was renamed as a platypus in the 60’s ,it ran a Porsche twin cam in it . I cant find the id tag for it so I can give you any numbers from it but I was wondering if someone has build info/ history for the mk4 .thank you

[John Turner]

Better in the History forum to start with. Can anyone help kryten?

[PeterMorley]

Merlyn are still in business, still ran by Clive Hayward, and can supply you with most parts, information etc.

http://www.merlyncars.com/

I had the remains of a Merlyn Mark 4 sometime ago - it went to America around 1999, and has now been restored with the major parts being supplied by Merlyn.

[simon drabble]

Originally Posted by kryten

I’ve had a car/chassis sitting my garage for years I’m looking for some info on it . I know it’s a Merlyn mk4 and it was renamed as a platypus in the 60’s ,it ran a Porsche twin cam in it . I cant find the id tag for it so I can give you any numbers from it but I was wondering if someone has build info/ history for the mk4 .thank you

If you can evidence it as being genuine I am sure Clive will be very helpful - I have a Mk6a. From what I understand its accepted that Mk4 cars can be run with mk6 modifications.
Did the Platypus run in any international events If not you might be better to restore it to a Mk4/6 spec as you will then get FIA papers

[kryten]

Let me expanded on this .the Platypus was built by miles gupton and was the PAM Automotive Merlyn. As far as I know miles gupton was somewhere in the southern California area .I found a picture of what I think is the car at

http://www.tamsoldracecarsite.net/MartinZZGuptonMolleWillowSprings.html

copy & paste the link to your browser

[simon drabble]

so its basically a Lotus 19 on an adapted Merlin chassis - personally I would restore it to the Merlin as the Platypus sounds from the description to be a bit backyard special. Merlin's built properly are quicker than 23b's and rapidly becoming the sports racer of choice in UK (not that I am biased!!) however when you see the premiums that they are now going for over 23b's it shows that there is a demand for them.
However its key to be able to prove its a genuine one and Clive should be of some help there

[kryten]

thank you for all the info, it really helps

[Cabc26]

If memeory serves me right there were only a few MK4's that ended up on the west coast - I know of the disposition of 2 ( of 3-4 of them) the west coast cars . The distribuor on the west cost was/ "blank" ribbs father of willy t ribbs the racer. If you really think you have a mk4 that's a place to start. I suspect that you have a special, which is not a bad thing if you are going to race here is the US.

On the Merlyn vs Lotus 23 note's - Merlyn's beating 23's is debateable. While there are a couple of Merlyn 6b's being run by ex-pro drivers that are fast, the 23's being driven by like capable drivers still beat them (twincam powered)along with the Elva mk7's. A majority of the Merlyns here are being run with pushrod fords in the small bore classes. Lastly - geometry wise the 23's a better piece , the mk4 i prepared had certain oddities that needed to be worked out including some suspension geeometry that had bind in its range of motion.

Here is the link for an unofficial registry here in the USA, you may beable to glean my some chassis shots if you have a CRD chassis or not,

http://www.5pointsmotorsports.com/Merlyn%20Registry.htm

Ray morgan runs 5points- now renamed to VMR he has both a Mk6 and Mk4
He should be able to help with Identifiing the chassis with the added benefit of being a GURU on the Elva-Porsches in case you need to be scvared out thinking about a 4-cam prosche motor.

Good luck

[kryten]

I don’t remember bunny being the west coast distributor for Merlyn, next time I see him I’ll ask him if he has any info on them. I remember first meeting the guy who I got it from at his shop. If he had any info on them it would have burned when the shop was torched.
On a side note, the chassis is in all original condition and with the chassis roll hoop. It never had any mods done to it that I know of, the Porsche twin cam had an adaptor made to mount to the original motor mountings. I might drawings for the suspension as well as some original a-arms.

[simon drabble]

Originally Posted by kryten

I don’t remember bunny being the west coast distributor for Merlyn, next time I see him I’ll ask him if he has any info on them. I remember first meeting the guy who I got it from at his shop. If he had any info on them it would have burned when the shop was torched.
On a side note, the chassis is in all original condition and with the chassis roll hoop. It never had any mods done to it that I know of, the Porsche twin cam had an adaptor made to mount to the original motor mountings. I might drawings for the suspension as well as some original a-arms.

does it have a Merlyn chassis number? If so Clive will be able to cross reference it to his records...
In Europe the Merlyns are all run with twinkies and are as competitive as the 23b's and twinkie Elva's. Merlyn Mk6 are stiffer than a 23b and therefore potentially quicker -Mk4 I would imagine could be slower

[Cabc26]

In the basic chassis area there is not a lot of difference between the 6 and a 4a .The 4a we did had a chassis with thicker wall tube (new ) than the 6's I have seen, plus a modern roll hoop with very sturdy fore and aft bracing. I can't vouch one way or the other between stifness of a lotus vs elva vs merlyn.

On the engine mounts, sounds like the solution was simpler than what elva had to do with the porsche 4 cam addaptation fo the mk7 - I have been there for the instalation of the engine I can tell you it was a three man job -

[simon drabble]

I can only speak about UK and Europe where evryone runs twin cams (except of course the Elva's with the BMW engine. General consensus seems to be that the BMW Elva is clearly quicker but very twitchy and ultimately difficult to drive well. Of the twinkies we all seem to run about the same pace/ability if you see what I mean. The quick drivers are all about 2.55 round Spa on Dunlop M's regardless asto whther they are in a 23b or Merlyn or Elva.

[Merlyn mk6 RS44]

Joe Farmer here iam trying to find chassis drawings for the merlyn
mk6. I own chassis # RS44 the car was imported into Australia in 1969
by Bill Chapman an american airline pilot it passed through his hands to Clive Browne who crashed very heavily at Lakeside international raceway in 1972. I have all the components less body. Although the chassis is missing all of the front section. I have been in contact with Clive at CRD but the cost of having a chassis built is prohibitive by the time it land in Australia. I have built many spaceframes here in Aust so I would prefer to do it. Best regards Joe Farmer JCR Motorsport restorations.

[simon drabble]

Originally Posted by Merlyn mk6 RS44

Joe Farmer here iam trying to find chassis drawings for the merlyn
mk6. I own chassis # RS44 the car was imported into Australia in 1969
by Bill Chapman an american airline pilot it passed through his hands to Clive Browne who crashed very heavily at Lakeside international raceway in 1972. I have all the components less body. Although the chassis is missing all of the front section. I have been in contact with Clive at CRD but the cost of having a chassis built is prohibitive by the time it land in Australia. I have built many spaceframes here in Aust so I would prefer to do it. Best regards Joe Farmer JCR Motorsport restorations.

Given how little of the original car you have I would suggest that buying a chassis from Clive would make commercial sense otherwise you could be open to criticism that you are simply building a replica..... It is my understanding that he will only sell a chassis if you give to him the old chassis (to ensure duplicates are not built) which he then destroys

[Lotus14]

I may have pictures of a car that could have been yours in another life. They are of a Mk.4 which was modified to run a Climax FPF.
I own 32-RS which was imported by Bunny Ribbs; it was imported along with one or two others one of which was driven by Ken O'Neill, who was killed in it at the Candlestick Pack races. The wreck ended up in Oregon, then was sold to someone in BC. The chassis for the other was somewhere in San Jose, and I think Bunny was going to buy it, at one time.

[simon drabble]

Hi Lotus 14 - always interesting to hear from someone else with a Merlyn! How long have you had yours?

[ace rimmer]

Originally Posted by Lotus14

I may have pictures of a car that could have been yours in another life. They are of a Mk.4 which was modified to run a Climax FPF.
I own 32-RS which was imported by Bunny Ribbs; it was imported along with one or two others one of which was driven by Ken O'Neill, who was killed in it at the Candlestick Pack races. The wreck ended up in Oregon, then was sold to someone in BC. The chassis for the other was somewhere in San Jose, and I think Bunny was going to buy it, at one time.

I don’t remember bunny ever having a mk4 , I do remember the bt8 and bt29 he had . I live in san jose ,ca too and I do have a mk6 52rs that I hope to sell soon or asap if you know what I mean . bunny has been a friend of my family for many years now and I still see him when he’s in town

[simon drabble]

Who is it that has the website in the states? And Ace Rimmer are you selling the black one? I was looking at it the other day - it is very nice. Goodwood Revival in a couple of weeks has 3 racing in the Madgwick cup - mine, Jason Williams and Nigel Bancroft's one. JW and mine are 6a's and NB is a 4 with unusual bodywork

[ace rimmer]

Originally Posted by simon drabble

Who is it that has the website in the states? And Ace Rimmer are you selling the black one? I was looking at it the other day - it is very nice. Goodwood Revival in a couple of weeks has 3 racing in the Madgwick cup - mine, Jason Williams and Nigel Bancroft's one. JW and mine are 6a's and NB is a 4 with unusual bodywork

I wish that was my car, the one I have just the chassis and small parts. I’m researching the history of the car and will post what info I find

[Lotus14]

Hello Ace Rimmer &Simon Drabble,

Sorry it has been so long in replying. I’m afraid I’ve been busy and not visiting the web much.

To answer questions. I’ve owned the Merlyn Mk4a for about 14 years. I had owned a Lotus 23, which I sold to a fellow in Italy a few years before that, and had always regretted it. My whining finally got to a friend of mine, who introduced me to a fellow in San Francisco who had a Merlyn in his basement. Apparently he had the car for some time, and had originally planned to restore it, but as he had other interests the car languished. I struck a deal and bought the car from him.

I knew the car from its early days of racing, mostly in northern California. The car was imported by “Bunny” Ribbs, along with at least one other. I know this because of a long phone conversation with “Bunny” about the car and its owner. The car was imported with a pushrod Ford, but was converted to run a Climax FWA, which “Bunny” still owned at the time of our conversation. I wanted to run the car with that engine, but “Bunny’ wouldn’t sell. I don’t think that “Bunny” was a dealer per se, but he did make deals and bought cars from the UK as part of his business and interest.

The sister car was owned by a fellow, Ken O’Neil. He was killed at Candlestick Park in the Merlyn when a wheel broke and the car was thrown into a large concrete block. I remember the accident as I was working for the SCCA at the track that weekend. The SCCA “banned” Merlyn wheels, so the car I currently own was converted to use Lotus 23 “wobblies” by “Bunny”; I still have the those wheels, but they are too old to use these days; obviously.

The car passed through a number of owners, and engine configurations, but I haven’t been able to trace any significant racing history since the original owner.

I had home movies I took of both the cars when they were new, but unfortunately they were stolen along with the rest of my collection of movies taken at California tracks. I always hope they will surface somewhere on the internet, but so far no luck.

A note about the difference between the 4 and the 6. There was an interesting interview with Selwyn Hayward some years ago. He stated that the Mk6 was not much more than the Mk4 and he came out with it because sales had fallen off on Mk4s. He said the last Mk4s were being assembled at the same time as the first Mk6s, and they had the same suspension. I know that my Mk4 has an almost the identical suspension to a Mk6 that I measured for comparison. Now, like the Lotus 23, the Mk6 had a couple of evolutions, and I think the later Mk6 is probably a better car.

As far as the Lotus 23 comparison to the Merlyn, I can’t say there is a tremendous difference.
I think the 23 is very easy to drive, but in original configuration doesn’t have much you can do to set up the suspension as just about nothing was adjustable except for ride height and shock settings. The Merlyn is about the same, but needs to be set up a little more carefully.
I’m 6 feet, and the Lotus was roomier which makes for a more comfortable drive. I’m sure that helps a lot in the long run.

I have not run into binding suspension (I’m not sure how what is an almost identical configuration would bind anyway), and the shocks and springs are the same Armstrong models and lengths. In fact a fellow who is currently running a Lotus 23 in vintage racing “borrowed” my shocks and springs, which he is currently using. I never got them back, because they had never been rebuilt, so they were perfect for reconditioning. So I’m out a set of original shocks (although he tried to convince me that a set of thoroughly trashed shocks; missing parts were actually mine).

If you were really to compare the 23 and the Merlyn, you would need to run the early 23 with a pushrod Ford, the crappy original gearbox; not a Hewland, and the very much smaller and harder original tires. With the Merlyn, you would have the same engine, but the superior Hewland built for the Merlyn, and the same early tires. Now people are running much more powerful engines, modern or at least upgraded gearboxes, modified suspensions, and much larger stickier tires. With that configuration the Merlyn has beat the 23 on more than one occasion, and not with professional drivers. To tell the truth, I’ve lost interest in racing the car anyway, as the fun has gone out of it.



A question. Is there any other registry of Merlyn sports racers than the one mentioned? I sent information to the owner of that site about my car, but he never entered it. I also included some information about a couple of other Merlyns, but that was not entered and I received no acknowledgement or reply. I don’t think the owner is keeping that registry up anymore, so I would be interested in any other that might be known. Thanks.

[ron6827]

The three Platypus race cars were not backyard specials. They were built by Hans Adam, a well respected racecar builder who became team manager for the James Garner racing team. He finished his career as the
service manager for Vasek Polaks' BMW agency where he maintained the
Polak Porsche 908 that was driven by Davey Jordan.

Hans built several other race cars including the PAM CanAm car. If you
indeed have the Gupton car it needs to be restored as a Platypus. It
was famous among Porsche SCCA racers in California.

Art Conner races one of the cars, thought to be Guptons ?, in many vintage races.

http://atspeedimages.com/search.php?...atypus+Porsche

I can put you in touch with Art as well as Han's widow, Ann.

I knew Miles Gupton quite well. At one USRRC race at Riverside, Miles was
quicker that the factory backed Elva-Porsches at the event with the
Platypus. The car had the original Pat Bryan fiberglass body at that race.
This is the same body that is on Conner's car. Art's car runs Gupton's
paint and number design.

The Platypus is not a Merlyn. The PAM Scooter Patrick Merlyn was used
as a pattern for the first Platypus. I watched Hans build the first Platypus
frame while taking measurements from the bare Merlyn frame sitting next
to the new car. PAM had so much trouble keeping the Merlyn alive they
felt they could build a stronger car, which they accompilshed. There was a full page profile of the car in Competition Press. The article described the hubs that were specially cast for the car.

I am also in contact with the PAM Merlyn's first owner, Scooter Patrick.

Ron Cummings, California

[astonishdb4]

Hello, I have just found this long dead thread and joined the forum to try to find some info on my vehicle.
It is the one Ken O'Neill crashed at Candlestick Park; Chassis #30 RS, Body #26 RSF
I purchased/pried the wreck from Bob Bentler (hoarder extraordinaire) In about 1990, he had purchased it right after the fatal accident. It came with 3 of the original wheels and I managed to locate the 4th at a vendors booth at a race car parts sale near Tacoma. I asked Bunny about the car when he came up here to Vancouver the year of our inaugural Indy Car race. He could not offer much info on the car.

The car is pretty much complete other than missing engine and transmission and I'm afraid it will be a distant retirement project for me. I have scads of Twink stuff and plan when the time comes to run it in that configuration.

Any info would be very much appreciated, thanks.

[Beachmk4]

Hello all,
I have just purchased Ray Morgan's Mk4A. I would like to know if anyone here could point me in the right direction to find out a bit of history on the car. It is chassis number 48RS and was supposedly found in a lockup in Belgium before coming to the States.

Any direction will be appreciated.

Chip Wright

[ace rimmer]

Chassis #52 I have documented the car from the time Susan Thompson (the” T” in TRW) purchased it with Scooter Patrick and run as the PAM Merlyn (Scooter Patrick Hans Adam Miles gupton) with a Porsche twincam but the twincam was lacking power so a corvair was tested in it. The corvair had too torque for the space frame and needed a heavier duty build from the roll hoop back. In time the frame acted as a pattern for the Platypus that was campaigned on the west coast for many years. This still has the original roll hoop .

[ace rimmer]

oh I might add that the car is a MK6 not a MK4. my bad.