Long Beach to IRL?

[Kicking-back]

Speaking on Sky Sports IRL coverage tonight, co-presenter and former CART team boss Paul Cherry says he's heard strong rumours Toyota have made an "offer that's too good to refuse" for Long Beach to be an IndyCar race next year.

[luke]

Yes and I just mentioned it in the IRL forum........doh!

Anyway good for the IRL bad for CC.

It looks very likely filling that it would fill in that very long gap from April the 3rd to April the 30th.

[Muzza]

It is very likely that the IRL will race at Long Beach in 2006 - this is more than a rumour -, but I believe next year's race will still be a Champ Car event.

[esorniloc]

Would it use the same circuit?

[Brian W Keske]

I sure hope so, so we can compare the times.

Seriously, I doubt there would be a reason to change it.

[Muzza]

Recent real estate developments - construction of new garage for the Aquarium of The Pacific in 1998 and the inauguration of The Pike shopping mall this year, plus new complex of three apartment skyscrapers which just opened for sale - make changes to the race track quite unlikely... unless the IRL powers-to-be insert an odd chicane somewhere in the circuit just to make the lap times not directly comparable.

From time to time someone suggests that the track should use Ocean Boulevard again (as it did in 1975-1982), but complications regarding traffic control and opposition from hotels and other businesses make this a very remote possibility.

[dubby99]

Why can't the IRL stick to the things they do best and leave the lefts and rights for champcar.

Why does Toyota want an IRL race at long beach if there involvement in the IRL is going to end in the near future?

[Kicking-back]

Their involvement in the IRL isn't going to end in the near future.


This seems like another step towards one open-wheel top-level series in America.

[dubby99]

Originally posted by Kicking-back


This seems like another step towards one open-wheel top-level series in America.

Then how is this good for champcar?

And what's the point of this thread being started in the first place?

[Fogelhund]

I wouldn't make much out of this, certainly not from a "health" of series A vs. Series B viewpoint. It has been a given for a number of years now that LBGP sponsor Toyota wanted their cars running at the event. It was only a matter of time, and does not reflect upon either the IRL or OWRS.

[macdaddy]

KB, I gave up on unification months ago.
Fogelhund, good post. Sums it all up.

[sgjb]

"I wouldn't make much out of this"

Are you kidding, it is really the only well attended event in the U.S. OWRS has. In order to bring good tv to the series they need a jewel in their crown much like the IRL leverages the 500 in getting ABC. If they never had the 500 and the ABC tv deal, they first off would not have been able to split and for sure they certainly would not be around today.

Long Beach is very important in the future of OWRS, losing it will IMO set them back many years as they try to build another U.S. venue to the same level as Long Beach. When you factor in the Hollywood side to Long Beach they never will replace it.

They will forever struggle without a great TV deal and only U.S. races with full stand will catch the eyes of a real broadcaster that will pay OWRS to cover their events. They cannot succeed long term without a good TV deal.

Although everyone has assumed Toyota will wrestle the event to the IRL for along time, it still is a really really big deal to lose it. It does reflect positively on the IRL and reflects poorly on OWRS. We all here understand all involved but to the average race fan right away will think OWRS is falling apart and IRL is moving forward, it's that simple.

[racinthestreets]

Fogelhund is correct. Do not overplay the LBGP as a trump card. It is not. CCWS will survive with or without LBGP. I love the environment of LBGP, however, from the view as an onwer of a business, I am not drawing my line in the sand on this beach.

[esorniloc]

How long has Toyota sponsored the Long Beach GP?

[gttouring]

let's hope this is a better rumor than the Speed touring car at long beach i heard from last year-doh!
this is probably a very good one-with St.Pete on this should be easy.

[BootsOntheSide]

This would be a big loss for CART - none of their other US races are especially well attended, and none really capture the imagination of a wider audience. There's no guarantee that the IRL would put on good road/street races, but a lot of their top guys have plenty of experience in that type of racing, so I guess they would.

[indycool]

Agree with Muzza....more likely 2006 for IRL.

It's the southern California Toyota dealers which sponsor the event, not TRD or the factory. But it's likely they'd be more enthused about "bang for the buck" with Toyota-powered cars in the field.

There were also rumors about ALMS running there, but that schedule is out and there's no date there.

[Muzza]

Originally posted by esorniloc
How long has Toyota sponsored the Long Beach GP?

Toyota has been the title sponsor of the race since 1980, without a single interruption. Note that Long Beach was in the Formula 1 calendar until 1983.

Guys, let's see the awful truth as it is and not try to play it down: the loss of the Long Beach GP to the IRL would be horrible to Champ Car. It may well be the last straw. That's the marquee road racing event in the United States (I ought to say that, no matter how much I like Sebring) and its slot in the calendar is always a point that Champ Car and Atlantics team exploit ad nauseam when dealing with potential sponsors.

It was rumoured by some newspapers a while ago in Southern California that the ALMS could race at Long Beach, but that would be a dual-ticket (together with another category) - and after the way the ALMS was (very poorly) treated by CART management at the Miami Bayfront race in 2002 Don Panoz and his friends decided not to be part of these sorts of combined events anymore.

Also, Bernie Ecclestone's comments that Formula 1 needed a second race in the United States to ensure a stronger presence in this market made many consider that the so-called "Pinnacle of Motorsport" might set foot at the streets of Long Beach. Frankly, the realization of a OWRS at Long Beach in 2006 and after is so unlikely that even the very remote possibility of a Formula 1 return to Southern California is more probable that a Champ Car race in that year.

(To make things more difficult, OWRS did not leave a good impression at all amongst Long Beach Grand Prix Association members during the series launch in April.)

Another factor moving the Long Beach scale towards the IRL is that this latter's race at Fontana has been poorly attended since its first edition, and yesterday's event did not put even 20,000 spectators in the grandstands (information from local police officers), despite the cheap ticket prices.


Muzza

[indycool]

Doubt that Ecclestone's "feint" on Long Beach will amount to anything because of tobacco sponsorships in the U.S. beyond 2006. Plus, Ecclestone was quoted as saying a couple years ago that it'd take $30 million to bring Long Beach back up to F1 specs. Fontana attendance was reported as estimated 35,000 by San Bernadrino Sun, 30,000 by Riverside Press-Enterprise. If the same series was running both places, both would likely draw more.

[Kicking-back]

Originally posted by dubby99
Then how is this good for champcar?

And what's the point of this thread being started in the first place?

I didn't say it was good for ChampCar.


As for the point of the thread - well one of the most high profile ChampCar races could be no more. I think that's worthy of discussion.

[Snrub]

Potentially bad news, but I don't think it would be a death blow for CC. Look at what it's survived recently!

Long Beach is obviously the most successful US race, but keep in mind that it's been steadily decreasing in attendance. TV viewership is almost a non-factor. Denver had a reasonable amount of attendance this year, it can be done. IMO a track like Vegas needs to be looked at where they can produce racing that is wildly entertaining for people who aren't currently fans. Something along the lines of the Hanford device produces a far more entertaining race than running 15 degrees of wing and running side by side. If done correctly it can also produce technically challanging racing to bring in more seasoned fans. The problem is that this type of racing was not properly marketed and didn't attract a huge fan base. The IRL has managed to build big fan bases at several tracks with poor quality racing, IMO CC can do it with high quality racing.

[indycool]

Not so soure about that on Denver, Snrub. Little confusion about attendance there and John Frew just took a job with Centrix.

[Snrub]

So what were the real numbers? Why would CC list false numbers?

[indycool]

Street races, in general, have overinflated numbers because they just can't build that many seats. For example, Pook told the St. Pete Times 50,000 for the weekend in '03 and cart.com posted 90,000. No way. I haven't seen that approach change much with new management. Street races cost a lot more money to produce with erection of grandstands, fence, barriers, security, etc., than permanent courses. Privately, I heard 17,000 on Race Day at Denver and that there are issues with the Pepsi Center and one other landlord. Take that FWIW....could be wrong.

[mountainstar]

Toyota Socal dealers don't own the long beach race folks. They sponsor it and new sponsors can be found.

Since this thread is trading on rumours and wild guesses, I'll throw one in. Tecate is rumoured to have offered to match the Toyota offer, in the event Toyota tries to pull a power play and wrest the event away.

The Long Beach GP is one of champcar's premier events and if the IRL attempts a move on it, expect World War 3.