Looking forward - both titles still wide open

Glen · 20 Jun 2005, 14:23 (Ref:1334570)

Easy to forget in all this ranting that the points race looks quite promising for Ferrari now, in both Championships. They're equal second in WCC with McLaren. Schumacher isn't that far off in the Drivers' either. Brings the season into a different light, especially if Michelin are pushed on to the defensive.

N I Tram · 20 Jun 2005, 15:01 (Ref:1334628)

If Ferrari win the title now it will be nothing short of scanadalous. They've exploited the situation for their own ends.

Menelaos · 20 Jun 2005, 15:04 (Ref:1334632)

I would be a shame if Ferrari or Schumacher win ANYTHING at all this year. Michelin will have to kill themselves, claim full responsibility over it and walk out the f1 championship. Drivers and teams that tried hard throughout the season were effectively destroyed because Michelin failed to bring in reliable tyres.

DaveBrockman · 20 Jun 2005, 15:06 (Ref:1334637)

A Ferrari victory in 2005 was always going to be a hollow one, given that they completed their 30th day of testing back in May while everybody else stuck to a voluntary agreement.

Winning against a field composed of Jordanskis and Minardis is meaningless.

Glen · 20 Jun 2005, 15:07 (Ref:1334639)

(NI Tram) Huh? I've read some of your rantings on the other threads - take a look at what you're saying! If the situations were reversed you wouldn't be saying it. I don't think you were saying that it was a shame Bahrain couldn't have adapted their circuit so that Ferrari could finish the race. Plain biased guff, I'm afraid.

(and others!) I don't get you at all. Ferrari were the only competitive team to bring a car that could do the distance in the rules - I fail to see why they don't deserve the points. Even if some accomodation were made for the Michelin teams Ferrari would have scored 1-2, so where's your beef?

There's plenty of opportunity for you to entertain us with your conspiracy theories on the other thread - I'm talking about the rest of the season on this one.

**Born Racer** · 20 Jun 2005, 15:26 (Ref:1334665)

Schumacher said that Ferrari stood a chance of winning the US Grand Prix after qualifying, and he tends to talk down the team's hopes in public at times so there could be some substance to that apparant speed. We don't of course know how they would have fared if the race had been normal.

Whether they can get enough pace out of the car to consistently challenge for race wins is tough to know. I think we'll have some idea in the next few races, but you have to say it would be mighty work to win the drivers' title. It will come down to the consistency of Alonso and Raikkonen. Raikkonen to me looks like the driver ready to pick up the most wins in the remainder of the season. If either of those two consistently get podiums I doubt Schumacher will win it.

As for the constructors' championship though I could quite easily see that going the way of Ferrari, at only 13 points behind, regardless of how much the car is improved over the rest of the season.

ralf fan · 20 Jun 2005, 15:29 (Ref:1334669)

N I Tram Havent the Michelin teams also exploited Ferrari's inability to cope with the hot temperatures in Barcelona and Malaysia? didnt see any objection then when clearly one team was disadvantaged... it is a tyre war... you win some you lose some!!

LampCord · 20 Jun 2005, 15:40 (Ref:1334679)

Didn't both Ferrari's qualify ahead of Alonso? And they didn't appear to be running particularly light on fuel either. Its possible they are starting to get competitive again.

Menelaos · 20 Jun 2005, 15:41 (Ref:1334682)

Yeah, just make sure I'm clear on this one, I don't say it would be wrong. I said it would be a shame for Michelin.

Kicking-back · 20 Jun 2005, 16:09 (Ref:1334738)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Menelaos

Yeah, just make sure I'm clear on this one, I don't say it would be wrong. I said it would be a shame for Michelin.

But self-induced.

chillibowl · 20 Jun 2005, 16:25 (Ref:1334765)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glen

Ferrari were the only competitive team to bring a car that could do the distance in the rules

too true.

im not the biggest ferrari fan in the world(or even close) but there is a reason why those who know try to emulate them and those who dont know blame them for everything!

BootsOntheSide · 20 Jun 2005, 16:57 (Ref:1334798)

Ferrari still have a big margin to make up, and there's no way they can reasonably expect to be as competitive as McLaren over the forthcoming races, assuming that the Mcihelin tyres aren't banned (which would be ridiculous, they have been perfectly safe at every other race all season - their number of failures per car is probanly less than Bridgestone's). Alonso actually qualified 6th, between the two Ferraris, but I take the point that a good result for Ferrari was likely under normal cirucmstances, although a win was unlikely. All the same, there's no question that Michael winning the title by less than 10 poitns would be hollow.

Don K · 20 Jun 2005, 18:39 (Ref:1334912)

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveBrockman

A Ferrari victory in 2005 was always going to be a hollow one, given that they completed their 30th day of testing back in May while everybody else stuck to a voluntary agreement.

Why?

They arranged to have special meetings (to which Ferrari was not invited), and they (eventually) came up with a compromise that those 9 teams could live with.
So they knew there would be a good chance that Ferrari would not agree.

If they would have wanted Ferrari to agree with the compromise, they should have invited Ferrari to those meetings.

Menelaos · 20 Jun 2005, 18:54 (Ref:1334926)

i'm sorry but that's what ALWAYS happens with Ferrari. Jean Todt said today that they were not asked as of the chicane. Come on, this is childish!! All team heads were talking about what could be done and Jean Todt didn't even show up!!! And then he said that they were not asked. Excuse me but these things are ridiculous. The guy sure know how to help a team do well, but sometimes he's disgusting.

Shoe-maker · 20 Jun 2005, 19:22 (Ref:1334959)

I think Alonso has it in the bag but with the Ferraris up there now, they'll think they have a chance, so it should make for some interesting racing.

TomS · 20 Jun 2005, 21:12 (Ref:1335102)

Menelaos...why should Jean Todt allow them to change the rules so that the Michelin teams can race. He will effectively give away 18 points if the michelin cars are allowed to run. Was Ferrari given a 2nd chance when they had problems with unrealibility etc...no..so why should they let the michelin teams have a break?

Pitstop · 20 Jun 2005, 23:15 (Ref:1335272)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Menelaos

i'm sorry but that's what ALWAYS happens with Ferrari. Jean Todt said today that they were not asked as of the chicane. Come on, this is childish!! All team heads were talking about what could be done and Jean Todt didn't even show up!!! And then he said that they were not asked. Excuse me but these things are ridiculous. The guy sure know how to help a team do well, but sometimes he's disgusting.

Please explain how you think a a team manager can be expected to turn up to a meeting of team managers if they are not invited to it?

avsfan733 · 20 Jun 2005, 23:28 (Ref:1335285)

bravo pitstop my sentiments exaclty. The Michelin boys can't blame Ferrari for anythign. they have categorically excluded Ferrari from Makign suggestions but then want ferrari to live by them.

on topic: I think what will be interesting is to see if Michelin gets somewaht more conservative now that this debacle has concluded, and if that doesn't open the door a smidgen for Ferrari

Glen · 21 Jun 2005, 09:10 (Ref:1335573)

Quote:

Originally Posted by avsfan733

- on topic: I think what will be interesting is to see if Michelin gets somewaht more conservative now that this debacle has concluded, and if that doesn't open the door a smidgen for Ferrari

I agree - this is what I meant by Michelin being forced on to the defensive. Plus Brigestone could continue to find improvements in their one-lap performance. Also, there may well be some variations in track type and conditions that will suit the Ferraris.

Gerben24 · 21 Jun 2005, 09:14 (Ref:1335575)

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveBrockman

A Ferrari victory in 2005 was always going to be a hollow one, given that they completed their 30th day of testing back in May while everybody else stuck to a voluntary agreement.

Winning against a field composed of Jordanskis and Minardis is meaningless.

I hope the Ferraris will get their bottoms kicked big time in Magny Cours! I do not object against the points being given to the Bridgestone teams, you can't blame them for Michelins mis-judgement. I do blame Ferrari for not giving in to put up a show, by building a chicane even when they knew the Michelin teams didn't want any points. I also want them to be

ss kicked because they've been testing, testing and testing, and not agreeing to that maximum of 30 days of testing, which is in the best interest of the sport.

Formula 1 should be all about the fans, the people that pay the money, it should not be about Ferrari.

I hope the championship will be all about Alonso and Kimi and that Indy will be the only victory of (the once so great) Ferrari. They do not deserve better!

Menelaos · 21 Jun 2005, 09:20 (Ref:1335579)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomS

Menelaos...why should Jean Todt allow them to change the rules so that the Michelin teams can race. He will effectively give away 18 points if the michelin cars are allowed to run. Was Ferrari given a 2nd chance when they had problems with unrealibility etc...no..so why should they let the michelin teams have a break?

First of all, some people thought I said Ferrari is to blame. I didn't. Ferrari is not to blame. The FIA is to blame.

Other than that, I don't think Jean Todt would have to agree to anything, my friend

I just think he would have to state an opinion, an answer instead of avoiding to say ANYTHING.

But I repeat, it's not Ferrari's fault, I must've said that a million times.

Glen · 21 Jun 2005, 09:20 (Ref:1335582)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerben24

...I do blame Ferrari for not giving in to put up a show, by building a chicane even when they knew the Michelin teams didn't want any points. ...

Even if Ferrari had tried to get involved (note: you have absolutely no idea if Ferrari blocked the chicane idea - they say it wasn't up to them to get involved) the FIA could not have agreed to change the circuit in this way - what happens if someone were to crash and get injured in this unapproved, untested chicane? From the instinctive anti-Ferrari brigade there has been not a lot of clear thought going on.

Menelaos · 21 Jun 2005, 09:33 (Ref:1335600)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoe-maker

I think Alonso has it in the bag but with the Ferraris up there now, they'll think they have a chance, so it should make for some interesting racing.

Yeah, it was not interesting when McLaren has the best car and tries to catch up. It's more interesting when Ferrari has a car that sucks and tries to catch up, after being awarded with 18 points because Michelin are stupid.

Ps. Please don't take me wrong again: I said MICHELIN are stupid. I don't blame Ferrari.

Gerben24 · 21 Jun 2005, 10:01 (Ref:1335625)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glen

Even if Ferrari had tried to get involved (note: you have absolutely no idea if Ferrari blocked the chicane idea - they say it wasn't up to them to get involved) the FIA could not have agreed to change the circuit in this way - what happens if someone were to crash and get injured in this unapproved, untested chicane? From the instinctive anti-Ferrari brigade there has been not a lot of clear thought going on.

Ferrari were not involved in getting a solution for Michelins problem, and they shouldn't be. The weird thing is that the other two bridgestone teams WERE involved, they shouldn't have been there either.

Ferrari was notified by Bernie himself of the solution they came up with, which was the chicane and they must have been aware of the fact that all the other teams agreed to this solution. Knowing that, they should have agreed to it as well especially when the Michelin teams agreed not to race for points. Offcourse an additional test session would have been needed!

If all the teams would have sticked together the FIA wouldn't have had a choice.

Getting back to the topic, the reason I do NOT want Ferrari to win is that I think they usually do not act in the best interest of the sport, but in the best interest of themselves.

Glen · 21 Jun 2005, 10:13 (Ref:1335632)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerben24

Getting back to the topic, the reason I do NOT want Ferrari to win is that I think they usually do not act in the best interest of the sport, but in the best interest of themselves.

Ah yes - unlike all the other teams. If you believe that, you'll believe anything.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Why do caps go forward at high speeds in a open top car	big ears	Racing Technology	16	11 Dec 2004 12:09
Open Saloon and Open Sports Car Series 2005	diz	National & Club Racing	4	11 Oct 2004 16:24
Carnegie blows championship race wide open!	Peter S	Rallying & Rallycross	30	30 Jul 2003 17:06
DC WINS IN MONACO!! But is the championship really "wide open"???	Tristan	Formula One	40	28 May 2002 16:25
It's Too Wide	Liz	Announcements and Feedback	2	23 May 1999 18:39