New Merc SLR in Sportscars?

danhx · 15 May 2003, 15:17 (Ref:599812)

I just read a report on autosport.com that says McLaren and Mercedes are in the process of evaluating the upcoming SLR supercar for potential motorsports activity. According to the report, Gordon Murray's team is currently working on a mock up of what a race version would look like. Of course Mercedes' official stance is that no racing is planned for the car. But plans can change...

**Aysedasi** · 15 May 2003, 16:06 (Ref:599873)

Pigs (or Mercs) might fly, eh?

Or not, as they would probably hope.....

;

rdjones · 15 May 2003, 16:16 (Ref:599886)

I saw that too, looks like they might be back in 2005 ??, now that would be interesting, Merc, Porsche, Maserati - now that would be a sight to see........

pirenzo · 15 May 2003, 16:30 (Ref:599910)

I saw that as well. I was gonna post it, but after a closer read, it seems to me that it is entirely speculation, and could never happen. Mercedes even say it won't happen. So i didn't post. I knew someone else would anyway.

JAG · 15 May 2003, 17:29 (Ref:599979)

Quote:

Originally posted by pirenzo
I saw that as well. I was gonna post it, but after a closer read, it seems to me that it is entirely speculation, and could never happen. Mercedes even say it won't happen. So i didn't post. I knew someone else would anyway.

Its not quite jus speculation as a mock up of a race car is being produced and Gordon Murray is heavily pushing for a race program. Remember the Mclaren F1 was never going to race.

Garrett · 15 May 2003, 19:37 (Ref:600125)

Is this new Mercedes SLR going to be an LMP or LM GTP or GTS?

rdjones · 15 May 2003, 19:48 (Ref:600142)

I would image it would be in GTS, but I might be wrong........

Nick M · 15 May 2003, 20:21 (Ref:600206)

Hmmm, interesting...

I have to say that if I were Mercedes I'd either want to avoid sportscars completely after the last, rather public, problems at Le Mans (the successes of the car overall rather got lost by the unfortunate incidents at Le Mans...) or I'd spend lots of time, effort and money to make damn sure the car was bullet-proof and fast so there could be no question of it being a good advert for the company. Especially if it's up against the likes of Porsche and Maserati.

The first option is obviously the easy one but maybe, just maybe, they'll surprise us.....

Fogelhund · 15 May 2003, 20:47 (Ref:600255)

Just like the Sauber Group C cars, it would likely be a McLaren until it was successful. Then it would mysteriously be called a Mercedes.

I hope that these "exploratory" mock-ups come to fruition. I hope we don't get GT1 again though.

JAG · 15 May 2003, 20:58 (Ref:600269)

GT1 problems would be avoided as fatories would only be allowed if 4 manufactuers signed up AND 4 or 5 customer cars provided. Plus some customer cars would count for points, encouraging manufactuers to provide customers with the latest parts.
Ratels also said cars will be handicapped if they are too quick.

pitviper · 16 May 2003, 00:47 (Ref:600432)

what DC should be doing is using McLaren's expertise to develop a new Viper coupe and coresponding race car. even the current Viper is a slightly better budget away from being back on top...come on guys...

pit

Chevyguy · 16 May 2003, 02:22 (Ref:600468)

Mercedes, Porsche, and Masarati!? You guys are all dreaming. lol

There is only one problem with the Mercedes and Porsche theories, these guys do not want to lose to Audi. Audi is there in '05 and I think everyone is scared. Speaking of scared, Pit, why didn't Dodge build a car that would be GTS legal? I think your boys don't want anything from my boys. HA HA HA HA!

JAG · 16 May 2003, 02:34 (Ref:600476)

Everyone thought Porsche was unbeatable in Group C but when the competition stepped up a level a couple of years later there weeakneses were exposed.

Nick M · 16 May 2003, 03:12 (Ref:600492)

Quote:

Mercedes, Porsche, and Masarati!? You guys are all dreaming. lol

Well, maybe, but maybe not....

The way things seem to revolve with sportscars (and GTs) is that every few years one or the other has a real peak. I think we saw that at Le Mans just about the time when Audi first entered and maybe the first year they won it. Then it all seemed to be Audi, Audi, Audi...

And then with GTs you get a relatively bland series and all of a sudden a privateer decides to enter something interesting, with some manufacturer support, and all of a sudden other manufacturers join in and you get the peak with the likes of the Toyota GTOne vs. Waldo Pepper's flying circus, aka the Merc works team...

It's all been a bit quiet but there should be (if there isn't there'll be trouble !!

) a new Viper around the corner, Ferrari 550s are pushing the limits, Maserati have made noises about returning, Porsche must be keeping a watching brief on events to see when it's worth their while returning in a proper capacity.....

Maybe I'm wide of the mark and I'm dreaming a bit, but I don't think it's actually such a silly idea to expect to see at least two of the three stepping up with a decent works based competition programme over the coming seasons...

danhx · 16 May 2003, 03:16 (Ref:600493)

My guess is that the SLR would be a GTS car... Perhaps this somewhat explains why Mercedes won't even acknowledge the existence of the Carsport Zonda GTS car.

Fab · 16 May 2003, 04:52 (Ref:600536)

Quote:

Originally posted by Chevyguy
Mercedes, Porsche, and Masarati!? You guys are all dreaming

Sometimes dreams come true, and it becomes the 1999 Le Mans race, just to mention a recent one...

**Aysedasi** · 16 May 2003, 12:52 (Ref:600902)

Quote:

Originally posted by Fogelhund
Just like the Sauber Group C cars, it would likely be a McLaren until it was successful. Then it would mysteriously be called a Mercedes.

I hope that these "exploratory" mock-ups come to fruition. I hope we don't get GT1 again though.

Good one! How many people forget that a Sauber won at Le Mans in 1989, not a Mercedes......

BTW, can't agree with you about GT1 though - I loved those cars.....

kdr · 16 May 2003, 13:30 (Ref:600960)

forgive my ignorance ayse as its a little before i paid a lot of interest. gt1? would they be like the 97/98 porsches and mercedes? or the mclarens and the like from 95ish?

BSchneiderFan · 16 May 2003, 13:32 (Ref:600963)

A thought occurs to me; the SLR has a 5.5-litre supercharged engine. Does that actually fit into ANY current category, or would Mercedes put a new unit (6-litre V12?) into it before racing?

pitviper · 16 May 2003, 16:09 (Ref:601147)

i had actually thought the same thing. but the road and track article recently that featured it a bit said that it was a twin turbo v8. which come to think of it, doesn't that go over the displacement limit for turbo engines for any class?

pit

JAG · 16 May 2003, 16:28 (Ref:601167)

For GTs it dosen't matter what engine you have as long as it is the same as the roadcar. You then just tune the engine to the particular regs. e.g. changing displacement such as on the C5R and the like. Didn't the F40GTE have a bigger turbo engine fitted?

Remember many road engines are of a higher displacement than there racing versions in order to comply with emmisions etc.

Turbos/superchargers cannot be fiited to an engine in GT (if the road car does not have them), but I'm not sure about being able to removethem from any racing version of an engine.

pitviper · 16 May 2003, 22:24 (Ref:601461)

so you are saying that they would have to lower the displacement of the racecars to comply with the regs? or would there simply be a smaller restrictor placed upon them?

p.s. jag, i would like to correspond by e-mail with you, mail me at pitviperLM@hotmail.com thanks!

pit

JAG · 16 May 2003, 23:09 (Ref:601488)

Say the Viper road car had a 9l engine, with the GTS limit being 8l, Chrysler could retune the engine to 8l in order to race.

I don't know the various limits in size for atmo and turbo egined in GTS/GT. However I believe 4l turbo engines and 8l atmo are the biggest allowed in LMP900/LMGTP.

Just as Prodrive and Cheverolet can increase the displacement of there engines upto the 8l stmo limit if they so wished, manufactuers can also reduce the capacity of there engines to race.

In GT1 TWR Nissan actually chose to run there cars at 1000Kg in return for a larger restrictor at LM 1998. There are lots of permutations with weight, restricto size, displacement etc.

danhx · 17 May 2003, 01:30 (Ref:601522)

JAG, doesn't the engine have to fit within the racing engine parameters in order to meet homolgation standards? For instance, the stock corvette engine is well under the GTS limit, but they are able to enlarge it for racing. Does it work the other way? Can a car with an engine that is larger than the regulations allow "shrink" the engine to make it legal, or would they have to build a certain number of road cars with a smaller engine for homologation purposes?

JAG · 17 May 2003, 01:45 (Ref:601526)

Quote:

Originally posted by danhx
JAG, doesn't the engine have to fit within the racing engine parameters in order to meet homolgation standards? For instance, the stock corvette engine is well under the GTS limit, but they are able to enlarge it for racing. Does it work the other way? Can a car with an engine that is larger than the regulations allow "shrink" the engine to make it legal, or would they have to build a certain number of road cars with a smaller engine for homologation purposes?

I'm pretty sure you can shrink an engine to comply with the regs. In GTS the limit is 8l for atmo cars so its unlikely a car will have to have an engine shrunk to comply.

Turbos, I think, are allowed to be 4l in size, and again I can't think of an engine that would not comply. As for superchargers I don't know what the limit is.

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