Low cost Racing

[racingdick]

Are there any locost racers out there?

[Mark Benson]

Me (well, I have been for one weekend so far so I guess that qualifies).

Can I help or was it just a census

[gttouring]

i've done a weekend-'road rally' or a hill climb in the states..
good stuff the car was based on a pickup with a v6, growly..

[ss_collins]

Locost is a series to those from outside the UK.

[Peter Mallett]

So tell us what it's all about.

[Mark Benson]

As the name suggests, Locost racing is (relatively) low cost.
The Locost itself is a Caterham/Westfield type '7', built to the specifications laid out in a book called 'Build Your Own Sportscar for £250 (and Race it)' though I don't think anyone has ever managed to build a car for that amount of money, and to build one which is eligible to race is considerably more.
The race series is run by the 750 Motor Club and is becoming more and more popular. The emphasis is quite clearly on novices, as the car's themselves must have pretty much standard 1300cc Ford Crossflows with very limited modifications (typically a new carb and a very slight rebore) - this makes the cost of entry low and the racing close.
At Donnington last weekend, I was one of about 45 total entrants and despite it being my first race weekend, had an absolute hoot, finding that wherever I was in the rankings (there were 4 races in total, 2 heats and 2 finals) there was always people of similar ability around me to race against.
I'm planning to do almost a full season's racing and including the cost of the car itself will spend no more than £10000 all in, which these days is peanuts. I'm sure it could be done for less, and subsequent seasons will be closer to £3000.

[Bob Pearson]

Mark
I was interested to read your costs in the Locost racing. It bears out my belief that there is no such thing as low cost racing, and all the formulas aimed at it fall short for one simple reason. The highest single cost when we reckon up the annual expenditure at the end of the season is entry fees. Give or take a few quid they are constant through the whole range of club racing.
It is interesting to consider that myself and my son compete in BARC Formula Renault ( arguably the top club single seater formula) for 3-4£k per car per year. Just about the same as you are paying for Locost.

[JR Ewing]

[i]BARC Formula Renault ( arguably the top club single seater formula)[/B]

Also, arguably definitely NOT.

Cars aren't great, engines are rubbish, numbers are poor.

I'd place it behind (not in any order) Southern Zetec, Northern Zetec, Scottish Zetec, 750MC Zetecs, Combe FF1600, Midlands FF1600, North West FF1600, Southern FF1600, Monoposto, ARP.

+ F4, maybe.

[ss_collins]

cheap motor racing DOES exist - I do it. but if you want to to whole season and championship then you gotta spend a bit more money. But I tend to do a bit of this and a bit of that and keep costs well down, also the odd bit of sponsorship goes a long way

[Dave Brand]

Originally posted by JR Ewing
[BI'd place it behind (not in any order) Southern Zetec, Northern Zetec, Scottish Zetec, 750MC Zetecs, Combe FF1600, Midlands FF1600, North West FF1600, Southern FF1600, Monoposto, ARP.

+ F4, maybe. [/B]

You missed 750 Formula Vee....one of the few single-seater series I actually enjoy!

[Bob Pearson]

Mr Ewing,
Cars are always a matter of opinion so I won't deal with that. Engines rubbish? We stripped one last winter, it had done two full seasons with us, let alone the previous owner, it didn't even need a rebuild!!
Numbers poor? what are you watching? Pembrey last season was the lowest entry at 24, most rounds were 28.
Are you sure you are not thinking of the now defunct 1700 cars?

[Bob Pearson]

ssc,
I used to do the same as you, and, sure it reduced the fuel costs and wiped out the overnight stays, but the largest cost constant, i e the entry costs still remains.
As a matter of comparison, how much are you spending and how many events are you doing?

[Chris Y]

Seems that the cheapest of the 'major' clubs at the moment is the BARC. Their entry fees are typically £20 less than BRSCC. In a 10-14 round series that can save you £200 - £300, probably more when double headers are taken into account.

If you want bargain basement racing - try the 2CVs!

[Dan Friel]

Formula Renault is arguably the best race series.. the quality of the drivers that I saw race last year bore that out. Numbers / quality in depth, which many other series (and none in particular) can't muster.

Cheap motor sport does exist - go sprinting in a road car. Value for money is a different matter!

Racing is expensive.. bottom line appears to be £3k per season - so that's £5k of wages before tax. Plus the car to start with, say another £5k of wages before tax. Plus trailer.. plus tow car. So you need to have a serious wedge (or loan) to start off. Plus £5k of your salary that you're not using every year..

Take off mortgage and funds for beer, and even on my fair and reasonable salary, there's no way I can manage on my tod...

Now if I'd drunk less beer at college or student loans were banned - life would be a different matter.

[ss_collins]

Bob - i wish I knew what I was doing! a bit of everything as is my way - will do pretty much every discipline, but racing wise - well the Uniroyal Team Challenge could see me out again, Semsec stuff is quite high up on the list, maybe this new highway saloons or the 'in gear' series.

I'm single, have almost zero outgoings and all I spend my money on is motorsport and beer. I might do a race in the Fiats, maybe also try a spot of single seaters. At the moment though I'm sans working car, but I have no idea what I spend. I don't like to think about it

But due to work commitments theres no point in me contesting a whole series as I'd miss round for the GP, Le Mans, Goodwood, Cart etc.

[Mark Benson]

I absolutely agree that the costs don't come with the car, more so with the entry fees and overnight stays - Brands this weekend will be £130 entry (IIRC) plus £30 for B&B, £30 towing fuel and £20 racing fuel. £210 in total and that's if I don't eat or break anything on the car, over half of that £210 is entry fee, for what? 10 practice laps and 10 race laps.
The idea of 'dipping in' did occur to me, but as a novice I need more structure, to be able to guage myself with the same group of drivers so i can see if I'm improving. Maybe when I'm more experienced I can change the car and compete locally (Combe and Thruxton, about the only 2 major circuits in the country that the 750MC don't visit) which would reduce the cost.
It took me several years to get enough space money together to get into racing, and I would consider myself fairly well paid and have no kids. I wanted to circuit race rather than sprint and the Locost formula at least gives me a simple car to work on and plenty of entries to each race to compete against. But if this is 'entry level' the barrier to entry is way too high for many people.

[Bob Pearson]

Mark,
That sounds dreadful, are you only getting 10 mins qualifying time? Going by your figures it is costing you £5.20 per lap.
At risk of another attack from Mr Ewing, BARC F/R gives 20 mins qualifying plus 20 mile minimum race for £155. That works out to £3.16 per lap. Perhaps we should re-name it Locost Renault!!

[Bob Pearson]

Sorry about that Mark,
I got my sums wrong , it is £5.20 per mile against £3.16 per mile, not per lap.

[Peter Mallett]

Well I believe the car costs more than the entry fees. If I do a full season I will rebuild the engine, probably make some changes and get no change from 10k pounds.

But I race a car I like rather than one that fits a particular pocket so maybe that's the difference.

Its also probably why I have to give up every now and then and go work overseas to get more money!

[Bob Pearson]

Sorry Peter,
It wasn't meant in any way to be criticism of anyone's choice of formula, in fact we would be in a right mess if we all chose to do the same thing. It was more a question of why do we not get similar value for money from all organizing clubs?

[JR Ewing]

Apologies Bob, I just don't agree about it being arguably the top etc. etc.

Value it undoubtedly is, albeit I don't like the French, and I don't like the fact that there is nowhere else to race the cars (they really don't work in Mono 40mm set up). If I owned a (not cheap) Tatuus I would be worried about being able to sell it in the future and I doubt if spares are less than bloody pricey as well.
I have no doubt you'll correct any errors!

[Bob Pearson]

JR, not much to correct you on there. I even agree about the French and I have to work with them.
I've never tried them at 40mm, but I know people who have and all the evidence suggests that they don't work at that height.
The championship is, according to the BARC set to carry on as a 1995-1999 series as long as it can support itself. The successors to these cars, currently running in TOCA would for a variety of technical reasons be an absolute nightmare to be used as a club racer's car. Hence, the decision by the BARC. If all that turns out to be the case the current BARC cars should remain saleable for a fair while. The BARC does have very successful championships which have run and run on that basis, pre 83 Ford 2000 being an example.
Not cheap? it's difficult to know what to compare them with.
Dearer than Vauxhall Lotus, but you would expect that, cheaper than ARP. Your a Zetec man, what does a front running Zetec at club level cost. A front runner in BARC Renault is £9k - £11.5k
Spares are made by a variety of black market outlets in this country, Tatuus don't make them anymore. They were dearer from Tatuus than they are from the black market outlets!! But if you remember my first posting it was to say we ran for £3k-£4k per yesr per car, so that side of things is OK.

[Peter Mallett]

Bob,

I was just pointing out that different formulae require different budgets.

When I started racing (I'm not going to specify when that was) a competitive season in FFord was around 15k. And that was considered cheap racing!

So it would seem that as the years have gone by the real cost of racing has reduced but again a season of FFord is now around 100k.

I race in Group 1 and there are those (the more successful I might add) who spend much more money than me, or they have the expertise to do the job themselves thereby only expending manhours, but if you cost those hours it pretty much adds up to the same thing.

[garry]

If you take the amount of time on the track in relation to the entry fee then Formula Saloons is value for money at £3.25 per minute. However you cannot say that we are a lowcost formula. Like most Championships there are always those who spend a lot more than others.
It is all well and good saying your season only costs £4000.00 but can you win the Championship on that budget. If the answer is yes than that is cheap racing.
The bare minimum a 12 race series will cost you has to be at least £2,500.00, that is just entries and travelling without anything else.
True lowcost racing is where the running costs of running a competetive car is fairly low. What do people consider to be low and what do they consider to be too high?
From what I know most 750 Club Champioship can be won on a relatively cheap budget, I also understand Championships like Legends are cheap to run once bought.

[woodyracing]

some championships appear deceptive too, I mean relatively cheap car and entry fees but high running costs, club FF Zetec?

Bob, Im very suprised that its possible to run BARC FRenault on £3k-£4k I thought it would be ten times that.