BRSCC gone mad?

graham bahr · 16 Jun 2003, 17:02 (Ref:633201)

yesterday at brands i had to face the COC because i spun 3 times in pracice, as it happens the brakes were playing up and they were either spongy or had way too much rear bias,

i realised i had a problem and backed off if there was any other traffic around to avoid incidents, anyway i was told in no uncertain terms that its unaceptable to spin (how do you find a limit if you dont step over the mark from time to time?) and if i spun in the race i would be black flagged and excluded!!!!!

can anyone tell me where in the blue book it says anyone spinning will be excluded??

for what its worth i'm no novice and can drive as should of been clear to the COC from my qualifying my 8 valve naturally asparated 1971 bmw 2002 6th,which was way ahead of all my class and ahead of most the the class above mine which all had 16valves and turbo's.

Bob Pearson · 17 Jun 2003, 07:52 (Ref:633855)

You are right, they have gone mad. Quite frankly they have been sliding gradually into a state of arrogant stupidity for some seasons now and this seems to be another step into the hole.
It amazes me that grown men can be so hell bent on self destruction. Most of their grids are desperately short, their entry fees are way above the norm and they treat the competitors ( and you are an example) as if they have crawled out of the woodwork.
The sooner they roll over and make way for people who have at least a faint grasp on reality the better for us all.

Cynic · 17 Jun 2003, 08:36 (Ref:633876)

From a marshals point of view I think the COC was entirely right to give you a telling off. You were aware you had a problem, but you were only backing off when there was other traffic around? So what about if you had lost it big-style anc buried it in the tyre wall? Or even worse stuffed straight into a flag point? I agree that threatening you with exclusion was a bit harsh, but it might be worth remebering that you don't just need other traffic to cause an "incident".

Bob Pearson · 17 Jun 2003, 09:18 (Ref:633892)

Cynic, you are deflecting the spotlight away from the issue, in truth 95% of cars on the track at any one time are carrying a problem in comparison with how the driver would like it to be. Usually the only way to evaluate the shortcoming is to take the car to the limit a few times, identify its reaction and consider what to do before the race. I know that increases the chances of an off with all the possible consequences you have descibed, but it is the only approach available. The sport isn't safe and the circumstances I have described is just one example of why it isn't.
The real issue is that people in charge on the day are so ignorant of the sport that they make the comments they did to Graham.
I am speaking from the experience of having to deal with arrogant, unhelpful officials at BRSCC meetings in the past

Bob Pearson · 17 Jun 2003, 09:22 (Ref:633898)

P.S
It's not always been bad, there used to be a really nice, helpful friendly woman working at the BRSCC called Rachael Lowrey, she disappeared off the scene and with her went the only chance of any decent treatment for their fare paying customers.

Barny · 17 Jun 2003, 09:41 (Ref:633915)

Several years ago a friend had the same thing happen to him, he had just had his Caterham set up proffessionaly and although he had more grip, finding the limit was more difficult. First time out he was caught out by change in handling and spun three times (also at Brands)and had a near identical conversation with the CoC.

ss_collins · 17 Jun 2003, 09:47 (Ref:633929)

three spins is excessive but the odd one or two at a meeting is fine.

Barny · 17 Jun 2003, 09:53 (Ref:633940)

Also the BRSCC ran the pre'90 FF1600 Championship which was well supported, but had very little imput from the club I never met the co-ordinator and when I tried to find him was told they don't attend many meetings.

As grids started to fall due, in my belief to rising entry fees and a lack of policing the regulations, they tried bolstering the grids by calling it Super Classic and allowing any kent engined car in, this only put off the pre '90 owners as it encouraged proffessional teams running Zetec chassis to cherry pick certain meetings , not supporting the championship, and taking points away from drivers contesting the whole season. It struggled on for a couplr of years untill thr BRSCC pulled the plug due to lack of interest.

I have left the BRSCC a nd finf the BARC a far friendlier and cheaper club to be involved in, it is only a shane they do not support FF1600.

DSM · 17 Jun 2003, 10:14 (Ref:633962)

We, that is my son, I pay and run the car for him, have been racing with the BRSCC for about 2 years now.
We have continually been amazed and disappointed by the attitudes of the club and its officials and only remain members because our series is run by them. Our hope is that things change and the BARC pick up the series or have a similar one in which we can run.
We were due to run at Cadwell his weekend. The meeting was cancelled yesterday because the BRSCC has not been able to arrange enough marshals. Prior to that our coordinator managed to get our single race increased to a double header, the second race being combined with a low (5) entry FF grid which was under threat of cancellation. on the face of it this helped the BRSCC both with the programme and in keeping the 5 FF entries.
When we asked for a 'special' price for the second race we were told to 'get in the real world'!
I'm not sure that it's us that from a different planet!!

JimW · 17 Jun 2003, 10:35 (Ref:633976)

But returning to three spins. . .

Almost all of the race organisers for whom I have observed over many (many!) years, have asked us to report cars which spin and remind us that they will generally consider someone who has three (or more) spins in a session to need to be spoken to.

This seems entirely reasonable to me, but of course I mean a sensible and polite discussion not a diatribe or a chance for someone to exercise their sense of humour on you.

Cars which are spinning are not under control and a repeated lack of control needs investigation for the good of other competitors and the safe conduct of the meeting.

Regards

Jim

Bob Pearson · 17 Jun 2003, 10:59 (Ref:634002)

Jim,
You are absolutely right and hit the nail on the head when you referred to the diatribe.
A simple conversation to ensure that the driver had a plan in mind to correct the problem and a dropped word or two to ask him to avoid "searching for the hero inside himself" before he is sure the brake balance was correct would have addressed all the issues and won a friend instead of an enemy.

**Stephen Green** · 17 Jun 2003, 11:21 (Ref:634025)

A quick point pr two chaps...

The BRSCC did try and get marshals for the Cadwell Park meeting, they gave out requests to all the marshals at Brands on both Saturday and Sunday at this weekends race meeting. Sadly, as many of us have been saying for some time, marshals numbesr are falling and we seem to be struggling to address the matter.

With regard to your comments concerning the BRSCC. Has anyone actually tried to sit down and talk to them face to face? I know we all like to have a moan from time to time but surely the only way to reach a suitable conclusion would be to discuss the issues and try to thrash out a solution?

mark ch · 17 Jun 2003, 11:44 (Ref:634058)

It's not just the drivers the BRSCC don't treat with respect there's a lot of marshals who won't do their meetings.
Stephen it's all them asking last weekend for marshals we all spotted months back next weekend would be short. And if stated on other threads they moved the meeting from the 15th they also lack foresight and they could have done a lot more and sooner...

Barny · 17 Jun 2003, 12:15 (Ref:634106)

DSM what championship are you contesting?

graham bahr · 17 Jun 2003, 12:34 (Ref:634140)

yes ok three spins was a lot, but exculd me if i spun again?
thats hardly a friendly word is it?

it wasn't just that incident, one competitor who changed his car prior to the meeting due to an eligability issue, and informed the paddock office in plenty of time also had to visit the COC and was accuesed of always changing cars and generally being a pain, thats the first time i've seen that particular competitor change car in the 20 odd meetings that we have both been at in the last two years.

scruitinneering was fun too, it seemed to be roll cage day, the scruits didn't like may cage as its bolted and welded!!
its only been like that for the last 100 or so meetings aparently its been weakened and they are worried about my safety???? maybe my saftey is why the cage has been welded and containes 60 meters more tubing than blue book minimum

strangely enough, the same scrut checked tha car next to mine in the paddock, which also has been around for years, his cage is also welded and bolted but that wasn't a problem, his cage doesn't have a diaganol instead it has a pair of angled uprights which comply with the blue book,
there was another car that i know of with a roll cage story but i wont bore you with that.
i think it would of been more important to check that none of these cars had siezed extingusher or cut off cables but not one was checked for that.

it seems to me tha whole attitude of the brscc is to keep racers off the grid rather than to get them on it.

**Tim Falce** · 17 Jun 2003, 12:43 (Ref:634152)

Graham, serves you right for overtaking me in the March meeting.

Seriously though, what happened in the race as you only seemed to do 3/4 of a lap?

**Stephen Green** · 17 Jun 2003, 12:45 (Ref:634154)

Graham, while I can understand your frustration, surely scrutineering is an MSA issue and not one specifically related to the BRSCC?

Would I be right in thinking the other driver you mention who changed his car is a well known member of Ten-Tenths?

**Stephen Green** · 17 Jun 2003, 12:49 (Ref:634163)

Falsemob, what car were you driving? So far I have Graham in his BMW, Rod in his Escort WRC...

**Tim Falce** · 17 Jun 2003, 13:01 (Ref:634188)

I wasnt racing this weekend. I was in the March Southern sports and saloon race in a red D-type.
My uncle, Eric Falce, was in his white Lotus Escort, No.51
Some pictures here

**Stephen Green** · 17 Jun 2003, 13:12 (Ref:634220)

Many thanks...nice pics!

Cynic · 17 Jun 2003, 16:52 (Ref:634523)

Quote:

Cynic, you are deflecting the spotlight away from the issue

I don't think I am. There's two points to consider here: Was the COC right to haul a driver over the coals for spinning three times, and was he unreasonable to threaten exclusion if it happened in the race?
I've already said that I don't agree with the second point. You can't predict what happens in a race, a driver could spin for any number of reasons that aren't their fault. To threaten exclusion on that basis is just ridiculous.
I do believe the COC was right to speak to him though. As someone has already pointed out, the guidelines we work to is effectively three strikes and you're out. Graham knew he had a handling problem that was likely to cause the car to spin, yet elected to continue pushing. That is just reckless. The excuse that "I backed off when other cars were around" means nothing.

graham bahr · 17 Jun 2003, 17:02 (Ref:634538)

to answer several points:

it would be true to say the driver who changed cars is a
well know ten tenths member.

it appears my ecu crapped out.

yes scruitinneering is an msa issue but for some strange reason i and several others i know only ever seem to have problems at brscc meetings.

had the brscc been asking for a sensable entry fee i know of at least two other cars that would of been on the grid for the sss race i wonder how many others there might of also been.

whilst not purely aimed at ff1600 barc se are supporting
single seater via the online landlord series, but alas few single seaters seem to be turning out.

graham bahr · 17 Jun 2003, 17:12 (Ref:634547)

was i reckless to continue?, i think not, has no body ever heard of modifying a driving style and driving around a problem? if schey can do why can't i? i actually posted my fastest practice lap on my last lap, having done quite a lot of laps after my last spin.

flagwaver · 17 Jun 2003, 21:20 (Ref:634914)

There are several answers to youre concerns about the state of the BRSCC
1 take it up with the Centre Commitees
2 join the Centre Committee
3 Attend the Centre AGM (remember if you want to raise a point you need to give at least 14 days notice)
4 Ditto Club AGM

flagwaver · 17 Jun 2003, 21:33 (Ref:634926)

Clerk of the course is also an M.S.A. appointment. They are not Club appointments a club may reccomend someone and might only use certain clerks but they are NOT club positions. In fact the only appointment that are made purely by the club are the club stewards.
If you have a complaint about a Clerk go through the proper channels, don't moan to all & sundry.
I too have been agrieved by a Clerk but a forum like this is not the place to get it resolved. It is not only drivers who get called to account for their actions.

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