Maserati GTP

[JAG]

http://www.lmsr.net/masnew.html

Speculation in the above link that the Maserati could run, at least initially, as a GTP.

Personally I think it is not out of the question that Maserati could produced a GTP version of the MC12 along with the revised GTS version.

With GTS being slowed to 2003 levels, Maserati may feel the full potential of the 'current' car will not be fullfilled in GTS.

If it was my decision I would investigate the possiblity of running the MC12 with more radical bodywork, less weight and seeing what the car can do against the prototypes.

[bf1]

Would it be possible for them to Holomogate the same car for GTS(GT1)and LM GTP? or would two productionruns be required?

bf1

[JAG]

LM GTP (LMP1) requires no road cars to be built.

[paul-collins]

The dimensions are still all wrong.

Dimensions of the MC12 L/W/H versus ACO-allowed

5143/2096/1205 vs 4650/2000/1030. Waaaaay too long, and too high and wide, too.

Total overhang allowed 1750 (1m max up front, 750 rear), but the wheelbase is listed at 2800, leaving 2343 in overhang.

There are no dimensions specified in the GTS regs, as they're all based on the road car dimensions. However, it does say this:

3.6 - Bodywork modifications :
3.6.1 - Maximum width :
a/ Across the front and rear wheel arches, the width of the bodywork (ACO Homologation form) may be increased by 10 cm maximum.
b/ The modification of the fenders must maintain as much as possible the original appearance and shape. The sides of the front and rear bumpers may be modified with the only purpose to join them up to the
wider fenders.

New wording :

• Cars the overall width of which exceeds 200 cm (rear view mirrors excluded) may be eligible if they are "Full type CEE" homologated or the equivalent for United States or Japan and produced at least 300 units per year.
The bodywork elements that exceed the maximum overall width (200 cm) must keep the original shape and dimension (ACO homologation form).

Oh, and it has an LMP-allowed 6L motor, but at 1335 kg it's way too heavy.

[Cadete]

I like that little detail in the regulations you quoted, Paul, I'm suposing it was made to keep homologation specials in check?

[bf1]

JAG - LM GTP (LMP1) requires no road cars to be built.

Stupid me I forgot that .Its been one of those days

I think I need some

Anyway it looks like Maserati have some work to do

bf1

[Garrett]

It seems like the MC12 could be an old GT1 car!!!

[paul-collins]

Cadete: I think you're right. It's from the most recent Gazette, issued Feb 26.

[JAG]

Originally posted by paul-collins
The dimensions are still all wrong.

Dimensions of the MC12 L/W/H versus ACO-allowed

5143/2096/1205 vs 4650/2000/1030. Waaaaay too long, and too high and wide, too.

Total overhang allowed 1750 (1m max up front, 750 rear), but the wheelbase is listed at 2800, leaving 2343 in overhang.

There are no dimensions specified in the GTS regs, as they're all based on the road car dimensions. However, it does say this:

Oh, and it has an LMP-allowed 6L motor, but at 1335 kg it's way too heavy.

Paul, I think those figures are for the road car version of the MC12. The GTS version apparently requires ballast to get to 1100kg. And lets not forget the Mclaren F1, itself a genuine road car, managed to get down to around 900KGs in its final form, with the long tail.

As for the dimensions (height I'm not sure about, assuming the figures are related to the road car, with a relatively high ride height), if the car was raced as a full-house GTP (LMP1)the bodywork would be changed radically, front and rear in order to be more effective.

Afterall the MC12 is based on the chassis of the Enzo, which has radically different bodywork.

[paul-collins]

...which is exactly what Mas said they'd do when they were told "that bodywork won't be allowed." So the MC12 has to be reworked anyway; is there any benefit to not doing it for GTS but rather for LMP?

Yes, the figures are for the road car. What other dimensions would there be? Or, to put it another way, has anyone ever taken a production car and made it smaller to go race?

As far as ride height is concerned, yeah they could probably get away with it. For that matter, width isn't hugely off.

But that length...

[JAG]

I was more interested in the weight, 1335kg ,rather than the other dimensions. But seeing as the GTS car requires ballast, and the 'road car' based F1 GTR long tail was down to around the 900KG mark, that shouldn't be such a huge issue.

The only benefit for Maserati, cost wise, by following the LMP1 route is the fact they do not need to produce another run of 25 road cars.

However I was thinking more about the potential for the MC12. Its well known that Maserati/Ferrari were lobbying to allow GTS cars to compete for overall wins, so they are obviously interested in going for the overall win.

With GTS being firmly pegged at their current speeds there is no chance of a GTS car going for the overall win in the short term future. Also with the GTS restrictions on the MC12 theres no guarantee the car will actually be a winner against the C6-R/DBR9 etc.

I was just wondering if Maserati would seriously consider stripping the bodywork of the car back, making a few tweaks and running for the overall wins.

[MulsanneMike]

The biggest stumbling block for an LMP1 Maserati MC12 is the wheelbase and overhangs. The wheelbase is essentially hard wired into the car's architecture. So they will be forced to run it at near 2800 mm. But more importantly, they will end up with a car bearing no resemblance to the current GTS version when they apply the LMP1 overhangs; a maximum of 1000 mm for the front and 750 mm for the rear (1750 total). Suffice to say it will be very oddly porportioned and will require a massive redesign from an aero. standpoint. It isn't just a matter of reducing the overhangs relative to the GTS car, recall the completely different underbody solution for LMP1. Maserati would, in essense, have to design a new car from the ground up in order for it to be eligible in LMP1. The only bits that could carry over might be the tub (depending if it meets foot box regulations!), engine, tranny, basically everything under the bodywork. I don't know, I just don't see it happening.

[JAG]

Originally posted by MulsanneMike
The biggest stumbling block for an LMP1 Maserati MC12 is the wheelbase and overhangs.

In its current form. But what if they based a LMP1 on the basic chassis?

[MulsanneMike]

JAG,

See above, was editing while you were posting. So my bottom line is this; why would Maserati redesign their car to run in LMP1 to then have to redesign it again so that it is legal in GTS? Makes no sense.

[Mal]

I dont see building 25 road cars a cost issue as Maserati are one of those companies that has the history and name to be able to sell such cars at huge prices - I understand the the first 25 and the proposed second run of 25 cars for next year are all sold!

[marcosgt]

Why would they build a prototype on a compromised, ie designed as a road car(albeit high performance), chassis?

It would be much cheaper, easier and (almost certainly) more successful to develop a whole new car around the Enzo running gear.

Cheers.

[JAG]

Maybe they could be a little ****** off with the ACO/FIA GTS regs and decide to look at the LMP route. Hopefully!

They already have the mechanical side sorted with a race developed engine, gearbox etc.

[pounetbf]

Obviously they have to re-design a new car to run in GTS.

it will probably not be ready for Le Mans in 2005 but will compete for the victory in 2006

To get some exeprience it would be interesting to run a full race test in running le Mans 2005.

I would not be surprised if ACO will give a specific "out of the standards" acceptance to run the present car "as it", in LMP, but with the GTS restrictor.

It would be a "win-win" situation both for ACO and Maserati.