Overalls

[scrutineer]

ANot sure how many of you have read your motorsport now mag, hopefully most of you will have had one by now.
One thing I would point out is on page 13 concerning overalls, I have noticed an increasing number of people sewing on badges and going through all three layers. It looks like the MSA might be looking into this closely now as they have sent emails to scrutineers and now put it in the mag, I would suggest that you are more careful now as scrut’s will be looking closer at them now.
Scrutineer
P.S
Don’t think this is a ‘tax’ on the driver the rule has always been there.

[johnw]

Thanks for the info scrutineer. No mag here yet

[Al Weyman]

I have had my name sewn on mine for about 10 years now and it was done on the AWS stand where I bought them at the Race car Show, are you saying they will pull me on these although I may well have to renew them now because of the age although the are in perfectly servicable condition, all this having to chuck things out that are like new does not do much for the environment does it?

[midgetman]

Scrutineer, please advise your chums (and be aware yourself although I'm sure you knew) that this only applies to the later 8856-2000 standard.

If a driver presents an older Norme 86 set with the name/badge embroidered through all three layers then that is OK because this requirement only came in with 8856-2000.

Al, yours'll be Norme 86 so you'll have no problem at all at scrutineering.

[JimW]

And, of course, all scrutineers will be able to identify fire resistant thread - not.

Jim

[johnw]

They have matches don't they Jim?

[terence]

I thought this ruling came into force at the start of this year?

[midgetman]

This isn't a new ruling. It's part of the homologation requirements for 8856-2000 (the specifications for flame retardant clothing for motor sport) and it's been around since, er, 2000(!).

The acid test is, if you have an 8856-2000 suit and the badge/embroidery only goes through the top layer it's been done by the manufacturer in which case it will have been done with f/r thread. If the thread goes through all three layers then it's illegal, period, f/r thread or not.

If you have a Norme 86 suit then there's no requirements on badges and embroidery and the scrutineers must leave you alone. Doesn't matter if you have f/r thread or not.

Simple really.

[brickkicker]

Originally Posted by JimW

And, of course, all scrutineers will be able to identify fire resistant thread - not.

Jim

I thought there was a big debate on something like this and the outcome was that no one could get (or at a good price) fire resistant thread? Has this changed yet.

[johnw]

I have a large spool of nomex thread. (Couldn't buy it in small quantities.)

If I can find a way to put it onto onto small reels, I'll happily sell it at the pro-rata cost.

[Al Weyman]

I can get Nomex thread from my embroidery supplier who have a new range. My embroidery machine has a gizmo for winding thread onto bobbins from a large reel, not sure if it could do it down to smaller reels though but what good would it be anyhow are ypu thinking of using it just to sew the badges on? If there was enough interest I would get in a stock of colours but its not cheap stuff and i have still never had a definitive answer if its legal or not and would hate to be responsible for ruining someones suit!

[midgetman]

Actually I've just re-read the FIA 8856-2000 specs and I may owe you an apology.

Whilst embroidery must go onto the outer layer only, it doesn't mention about badges other than the backings must be flame retardant. It is only "recommended" that flame retardant thread is used to affix them, not mandatory.

http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/35C5837CC89E8BBFC125731500433076/$FILE/5_8856_2000_overalls.pdf?Openelement Appendix 1 point 3

I'm positive this is a change to the original rules.

Scrutineer: This appears to contradict the MSA advice in Motorsports Now so your colleagues may want to check on this before disallowing any suits?

However, the easy answer is: don't affix badges to 8856-2000 suits. Then you won't have to prove the backing is flame retardant.

[Al Weyman]

Has there ever been an incident where a guy has been trapped in a burning car and by some freak quirk the fire has burnt through a sewn on badge and caused him severe burns, no I doubt there is in fact polyester thread itself has a degree of fire retardation as it melts as opposed to burns, I think the whole thing is just over the top.

[johnw]

Ahhh.... but this is about warding off potential litigation Al.
Not common sense

[midgetman]

You're right Al, remember a few years ago when Verstappen(?) was trapped in a Benetton when it went on fire in the pits? His suit was on display at Auosports later that year. All the polyester piping had melted and the suit was still intact.

but like John says...don't confuse us with the facts!

>>>>>>>>polyester thread itself has a degree of fire retardation as it melts as opposed to burns

Er no, actually it just disappears as soon as flame gets to it. Polyester embroidery would just vanish, but I get what you mean, it wouldn't support flame and cause problems to the overall.

[Al Weyman]

Ha ha at least if it disappeared when they drag you out the burning wreck they cant throw the book at you because you had some embroidery on your suit!