Kubica and Heidfeld - the strongest driver line-up in F1?

[Ralf's Girl]

Just thought I'd throw a crazy suggestion out there - I was going to go for "most complete" driver line-up, but...well...

I don't think it's any accident that BMW are top of the constructors' championship right now - it's early days, admittedly, but they've got consistency where Ferrari and McLaren, either collectively or as individuals, have stumbled.

Last season, there was a tendency to think that Kubica perhaps had more raw pace than Heidfeld, but that Heidfeld was the one who would ultimately bring the car home well into the points. This year, Kubica may just have gained the consistency that wasn't quite there in 2007. Between the two of them, I'm not sure that there's a better driver pairing on the grid (although no doubt some of you will disagree, which is actually what I'm hoping for ), and if they keep this up we could be in for a very interesting championship.

I'm curious to know people's thoughts on BMW's "dream team" - might they be the strongest line-up on the grid this season? If not, who is?

[FPV GTHO]

I think theres something lacking still for them to be the best, something that Ferrari and McLaren have with Kimi and Hamilton for instance.

[Ralf's Girl]

Well that's what I thought. But then I had to question the overall strength of both Ferrari and both McLaren drivers - Hamilton and Raikkonen are pretty special, no doubt about that. But their team-mates? I'm not so sure. Massa has a reputation for being very erratic, and whilst I'm a big fan of Kovalainen, I'm not sure he has Kubica's potential.

But I asked for disagreement, so that's what I'm getting.

[SALEEN S7R]

Honestly I think Ferrari and McLaren both have better drivers in the shape of Raikkonen and Massa and Hamilton, Kovalinen is good but not quite up to their standard IMO. BMW have 2 very quick drivers, quicker than Kovalinen but not quite as fast as Massa, Raikkonen or Hamilton. BMW and their drivers are where they are now mainly thanks to reliability, on outright ultimate pace neither BMW driver at the moment has the car to challenge the lead Ferrari or lead McLaren over a race distance. If Ferrari and McLaren start getting all their drivers to the finish every race then I personally think they will both beat BMW, although thats how things are at the moment much could change when the teams are back at Barcelona. You never know BMW might make a bigger step forward than McLaren or Ferrari...

[chillibowl]

i think its a valid argument considering BMW find themselves at the top of the constructer's table so both of their drivers have really done an amazing job in the early fly away part of the season...worthy of most complete tandem so far.
its clear that they dont have the best driver on the grid (or even the one of the top 3 or 4) but combined its hard to argue against what NH and RK have already achieved this season and if the car gets better...
personally im hoping BMW have the ability to match Ferrari and Maclaren in development and considering how much they improved from the begining of winter testing to the first race... well im hoping for big things

[Super Hans]

They're both strong drivers, but I wouldn't go that far.

In fact, I'd say that Honda's pairing are as good as BMW's.

[Knowlesy]

Ferrari have Kimi and the slightly weak Massa.

McLaren have Hamilton and Kovalainen, who I feel doesn't really have that 'edge'.

BMW have the coming man (Kubica) and the very good Heidfeld. Nick has always been a classy driver in my eyes right from his F3000 days (we'll forget 2003 shall we?).

It could well be that BMW have the strongest lineup, but we really will not know until they are in a winning position. That's the real test.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

In fact, I'd say that Honda's pairing are as good as BMW's.

Only if you can pick two from four.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Nick has always been a classy driver in my eyes right from his F3000 days (we'll forget 2003 shall we?).

He was right behind Kubica at the end of the race,but it gets very little mention.

[kartracer41]

I think, drivers wise, BMW has a very strong pairing. They came out quite strong and consistent last year also. It is hard to say who has the strongest, or best pairing, but the most consistent, may BMW.

I would love to see them competing for wins and the titles, but I kind of doubt they will be able to match the development pace of the top teams once the season starts to progress.

[Chiefy]

On paper I suppose it should be Ferrari, but I often think Massa needs everything to be "just right" for him to perform. Bahrain, Turkey... they're his kind of tracks. He's bloomin' good when he wants to be but he sometimes lacks consistency (nevertheless a great title challenge last season).

Hamilton and Kovalainen we know can do the job and both have performed very well over the past season (I noticed James Allen mention that Bahrain was only Lewis' 20th F1 GP... and how many has Kovy had?).

I'm incredibly tempted to say BMW have the best two. Heidfeld and Kubica have everything you could want from two drivers, I'm sure. The only thing that's lacking is race victories - and you can't necessarily blame them for the fact they don't have any. Put all six men in Ferraris and Heidfeld and Kubica would come out on top overall, I reckon.

[al_sami]

Heidfeld is still very under rated as a driver. Would love to see him in a ferrari alog side Kimi

[Teretonga]

al sami
Heidfeld is still very under rated as a driver. Would love to see him in a ferrari alog side Kimi

He may not need a Ferrari before too long.

In spite of comments from people that BMW won't be able to keep it up I think the converse may be true.
Kibica? As good as Kovalainen who is vastly underestimated, both perhaps better than Nick on raw pace but all three are racers... Drivers who perform well, consistently getting the most out of what they have on the day, meeting after meeting. While Kubica may have more qualifying pace than the other two I think Nick and HK actually are better over a race distance, and both far more consistent than Massa has proven to be. Felipe is very quick in qualifying but is a yo-yo on race form.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by SALEEN S7R

Honestly I think Ferrari and McLaren both have better drivers in the shape of Raikkonen and Massa and Hamilton, Kovalinen is good but not quite up to their standard IMO.

For fear of being the only man in the Kovalainen fan club, what more does he need to do? He has set 2 out of 3 fastest laps, out-qualified the "uber-god" Lewis with more fuel, hasn't stuffed it into the back of anyone, (lewis) spun off for no apparent reason (felipe and Kimi), and has equal points with Lewis, more than Kimi and had it no been for an unfortunate safety car, been leading the championship.

He may not have the out-right speed of Kimi, but then he doesn't seem to crack under pressure.

I was having this conversation with my mates today. In the McLaren pline up, i believe that things aren't going as planned, Heikki wasn't meant to be this good, or indeed, this close to Lewis and the form of the BMW's wasn't in the script either. Lewis vs Kimi??

Not sure about that, Lewis vs Kimi vs Nick vs Robert vs Heikki vs Felipe

Hell, this may just be the best season championship wise for years.

[Teretonga]

Mr V
Not sure about that, Lewis vs Kimi vs Nick vs Robert vs Heikki vs Felipe

Hell, this may just be the best season championship wise for years.

Agreed. It hasn't been this open for ages. Even last year wasn't this good.

[Ralf's Girl]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

its clear that they dont have the best driver on the grid (or even the one of the top 3 or 4) but combined its hard to argue against what NH and RK have already achieved this season and if the car gets better...

That's what I was driving at, really - BMW don't have spectacular individuals, which Ferrari and McLaren both do. But what they seem to have is a driver pairing that's capable of consistently qualifying well and finishing in the points, with a minimum of fuss (and let's face it, we see a lot of fuss with Ferrari and McLaren). I think the two of them complement each other as well as, if not better than, any other line-up on the grid this season.

[2fast]

If McLaren went back to the old 04-06 ways of DNFs and Kimi gets his famous streak of bad luck. BMW might very well be the Constructor champ. I still don't think NH or RK will be the WDC this yr. since individually they might lack a bit of speed. But I agree with you that as a "team" BMW has the strongest lin up...in that they are so evenly matched there's no clear #1 thus, they will push each other more than the other 2 teams.

[Chiefy]

If we can take a six-way battle for the title even to the midpoint of the season then this may well prove more exciting than last year (and let's be honest, the politics aside that was pretty darn good!).

[LinkF1]

This has been in the back of my mind for a long while. I haven't wanted to point it out because I feel that I am strongly biased being a BMW fan, but neither driver seems to make mistakes and both have had some spectacular passes this year.

Also I dont get where these people are getting the idea that BMW can develop their car at a reasonably quick pace. They definitely have the resources to put behind it and they have shown in the past two years that they can take a relatively mediocre car and do great things with it. The other teams have a ton to do to catch up with the BMW in the corners, take a look at the apex speeds. I have a feeling they are going to absolutely dominate the high downforce tracks such as Monaco.

[JohnSSC]

It is very difficult to rate the drivers as the cars can make even a very good driver look downright bad. I would say that so far, the BMW pair has been the most consistent of the driver pairings.

To Mr V's point: as I have noted elsewhere, HK has just gotten on with it. Not unlike Mika on his day or Michael on most days he is fast without being dramatic.

By that I mean he isn't sliding around , correcting the wheel etc making a show of it. You look at fast lap and see that it was HK and say to yourself: "He didn't look that fast!" Maybe another driver that he is more comparable to would actually be Jenson Button.

But no, I think things are not going to plan at McLaren. I was amused to hear Lewis prior to the season talking about all the pressure that was on him last year before the season started and I kept asking myself: "What pressure?" as no one was really expecting anything from him. Things took off after those early races but prior to that the only known pressure on him was perhaps to keep the car on the track.

It may be that Lewis, flushed with early success, may have begun to think that this whole winning the WDC thing was easier than it actually is. At this point, I would be hard pressed to predict the 2008 WDC. At this point I also would not rule out a race win for Mr Kovalainen either.

If last year was interesting then this year is going to be off the charts if thigs stay as close as they are amongst the BMW, Mc and Ferrari drivers.

[koper]

Originally Posted by LinkF1

This has been in the back of my mind for a long while. I haven't wanted to point it out because I feel that I am strongly biased being a BMW fan, but neither driver seems to make mistakes and both have had some spectacular passes this year.

Also I dont get where these people are getting the idea that BMW can develop their car at a reasonably quick pace. They definitely have the resources to put behind it and they have shown in the past two years that they can take a relatively mediocre car and do great things with it. The other teams have a ton to do to catch up with the BMW in the corners, take a look at the apex speeds. I have a feeling they are going to absolutely dominate the high downforce tracks such as Monaco.

I also thought that if not earlier, Monaco will ba a very good chance for BMW. They lack the speed on straights, but are very fast in the corners.
They have already been strong last year there. And what's more...Robert is a great fan of road tracks

[RaiseYourFist]

While BMW do have a very strong driver lineup I dont think they or McLaren will be able to beat Kimi for the WDC this year. That Ferrari is just too quick, they will probably get a win or two but to challenge for the championship this year is too much.

[FPV GTHO]

BMW's strength with their drivers may be they pick up more points when the top 3 teams are alot closer performance wise. Ferrari and McLaren may rely on big point hauls by simply being the faster of the trio and relying on a 1-2. Overall, i think Kovalainen, Massa, Kubica and Heidfeld are about equal though.

[Ralf's Girl]

Originally Posted by RaiseYourFist

While BMW do have a very strong driver lineup I dont think they or McLaren will be able to beat Kimi for the WDC this year. That Ferrari is just too quick, they will probably get a win or two but to challenge for the championship this year is too much.

I think the drivers' championship at this stage is beyond their reach - as good as both their drivers are, I think there is still some work to do to catch up with Ferrari and to a lesser extent McLaren. But I wouldn't count them out of the constructors' battle (especially not this early in the season) - there's no doubt that the Ferrari is very fast, but if BMW's drivers keep bringing their cars home in the points and on the podium and can grab the odd victory, I wouldn't be surprised to see them up there come the last 2-3 races of the season.

Originally Posted by Chiefy

If we can take a six-way battle for the title even to the midpoint of the season then this may well prove more exciting than last year (and let's be honest, the politics aside that was pretty darn good!).

A six-way battle for the title? That would be rather exciting...

[Marbot]

I think Honda have the strongest driver line-up! *throws cat amongst pigeons*