Group A Holden Commodores in Europe

[racerVK]

I am trying to track down how many commodore went to the UK and Europe in the 80s and the history on any of these cars or where are they now. I may be interested in Buying one as well. Any help would be great

[chunterer]

Woah, that's a good one!

Perhaps I can start the ball rolling!

As far as I know, a Les Small vk came over in 86 for Gricey to do ETC which was tended by Alan Docking when here. This car then stayed and was run by Mike O' Brien for the next 2 seasons in BTCC. The VK was upgraded to VL spec I believe and then had the big spoilers and splitters fitted. Not sure what happened to it after 1988 though?

Brockie also brought one over to do some '86 ETC. This car was then leased to Dave Cook to run Vince Woodman and John Cleland in TT perhaps with a view to one of them using it in BTCC the following year, but I think it might have gone back to HDT instead?

John Maguire ran a couple at the '87 TT for some people - I guess that was also leased from somoeone for that event?

Peter Barnes ran one in modified saloons in later 80's/early 90's but I don't know who's car that was to start with?

One or 2 cars went into Rallycross run by some Belgian people.

There was also a car or 2 in Dutch Grp A in late 80's as well?

I have little doubt other members will be able to fill out the details on these....

[racerVK]

I understand that a guy called grahame nash ran one in the 1992 93 era. do you know what may have happened to the Grice car

[KA]

Duplicating some of the info already posted by chunterer, but the cars I can think of are:

I've added links to pictures as far as I can find, although I know I've seen pics of some of them missing ones on the web....
1986- all VKs

• Allan Grice- single car for most of the 86 ETCC season, shared with a variety of drivers

http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-04-06-027.jpg

• Peter Brock-one car in selected ETCC races

http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-04-06-005.jpg

• Peter Brock/HDT- a second car at Spa

http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-08-03-006.jpg

• GM Dealer Sport- Silverstone TT- one of the Brock cars run for John Cleland/Vince Woodman- can't find a pic but it ran in Mobil livery

1987

• Mike O'Brien- single car run by Alan Docking Racing in the BTCC (entered under the Linden Racing name?) I've always assumed this was the ex-Grice car, although I've seen a suggestion on another forum that it was one of the ex-HDT chassis...
• Allan Moffatt- single Rothmans-backed VL in the first half or so of the WTCC

http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-08-02-005.jpg

• Peter Brock- single VL at Spa

http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-08-02-003.jpg

• Michel Delcourt- possibly run by Serge Power, one VL appeared in a number of ETCC/WTCC rounds.

http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-08-02-024.jpg
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-09-06-023.jpg
There was possibly a second car as well (see below)

• Jeroen Hin- 'Playboy' backed VL appeared in a few ETCC rounds plus Spa

http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-08-02-034.jpg

• A VL appeared at the TT for British drivers Vic Covey/Andrew Jeffery-I'm guessing they leased either a second Serge Power/Delcourt car, or the Hin/Playboy car
• TWR- a VL at the Nurburgring WTCC round for Walkinshaw/Allam in Herbie Clips colours

1988

• Mike O'Brien- an Alan Docking-run VL in the BTCC-upgraded to a 'Walkinshaw' late season. The 1987 VK upgraded to a VL?

• TWR- a single Herbie Clips 'Walkinshaw' appeared at the abandoned Birmingham BTCC round and the TT- think this then went to Australia as part of the TWR Bathurst entry

http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-09-04-046.jpg

I'm pretty sure there were others- think there was one in France around 87/88 backed by Elkron (think it appeared at the Nogaro ETCC round),
there was a 'Walkinshaw' running in European Rallycross in the early 90's with the Belgian 'Car Glass team,- don't recall the drivers, although should have details somewhere
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7502634...n/photostream/

and I've seen this pic of a 'Walkinshaw' racing at Zolder in the 1990 Belgian Procar series:
http://www.zandbak.net/classic/90nrf/003.jpg

No idea though of the histories of the individual cars, or where they are now though....

[KA]

Originally Posted by racerVK

I understand that a guy called grahame nash ran one in the 1992 93 era. do you know what may have happened to the Grice car

Is that the same Graham Nash who ran Saleens in British GT and FIA GT? Some of those cars were owned by Mike Newton, who I think has an ex-Aussie V8s early 90's Falcon in the UK, but don't know if he ever had a Commodore...

[COLIN STUBBS]

Seem to recall Ric Wood having one not that long ago and racing up north with it and Im sure I also recall a "ROADWAYS?" logo on the dash,,,

[Al Weyman]

Ric had the later model and raced it in Formula Saloons he also originally owned the ex-Brock earlier model he sold to Peter Barnes to run in our ModProd championship. I had occassion to have a good look around the car as there were some elligibility issues but we decided to let it run although as I recollect it was not that competitive. It was sold to a Dutch guy after that I believe.

[Jesper OH]

Finnish drivers Juhani Parkari and Pertti-Kurki Suonio were entered for the Nordic Cup group A race at Jyllands-Ringen late August 1992 in a pair of TWRs. http://www.geocities.com/supersaloon...tolista-1.html

Jesper

[d-b]

hi there

didn't one race in Thundersaloons one year? (can't remember which)

db

[GTRMagic]

Firstly, there were 3 Group 'A' homologation specification of chassis used in Europe, according to the pictures above.

VK Brock - Homologated by Brock/HDT with 5L engine, carburettored
VL Brock - Homologated by Brock/HDT with 5L engine, carburettored
VL TWR/HSV - Homologated by TWR/HSV with 5L engine, fuel injected

From the cars that ran in the 1986 ETCC campaign, there were 3 chassis that made it to Europe.

2x HDT cars - the #5 VK at Donington with Moffat/Brock at the wheel is the same chassis as the #6 VK at Spa for Bowkett/Lowr/Baigent.
HDT brought over a new chassis for #5 VK for the Spa 24hr enduro for Moffat/Brock/Harvey...
Where these ended up is not totally clear....

1x Roadways car - the #27 VK for Grice/Bailey/Delcourt/Others.... was the same chassis that went thru the entire European campaign for Mr Small's team, rebuilt and updated with new bits developed locally in Australia during the year (and after the crashes... )
It was always thought this car stayed in Europe but where and how is not known

For the 1987 WTCC series, there were 2 VLs that made it to Europe.

VL Brock - #5 Rothmans Mofffat/Harvey/Mulvihill car was an ex-HDT chassis, sold to the Moffat equipe when HDT could not afford to run it locally after splitting with Holden.
This chassis is in Melbourne, still in Rothmans colours, owned by a collector

VL Brock - #3 Mobil Brock/Parsons/Crichton car was an HDT chassis (rumoured to be an updated VK) which only did Spa '87... till the engine broke anyway.
This car made it back to Melbourne, and was the team's spare for the domestic series that year.

A change from VK Brock to VL Brock to VL TWR/HSV was not impossible with the right bits and pieces, all available from Mr Small's Roadways equipe at the time. The biggest cost of an upgrade to VL TWR/HSV was the need for the fuel injected engine (with its 4 bolt mains, mega aero kit that added serious weight, and the beginning of input from Happy Tom) as this was a black art not quite perfected down here in 1988....

[KA]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Ric had the later model and raced it in Formula Saloons he also originally owned the ex-Brock earlier model he sold to Peter Barnes to run in our ModProd championship. I had occassion to have a good look around the car as there were some elligibility issues but we decided to let it run although as I recollect it was not that competitive. It was sold to a Dutch guy after that I believe.

As you said, Ric Wood's car was a later 90's model- apparently a VS

http://www.ricwood.com/holden_spec.htm

The earlier car sold to Peter Barnes is interesting though- didn't know about that one, but I'm intrigued over how much earlier a model it is...

[racer69]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

1x Roadways car - the #27 VK for Grice/Bailey/Delcourt/Others.... was the same chassis that went thru the entire European campaign for Mr Small's team, rebuilt and updated with new bits developed locally in Australia during the year (and after the crashes... )
It was always thought this car stayed in Europe but where and how is not known

Stayed, as mentioned earlier, with ADR and was driven by Mike O'Brien in the 1987 BTCC (in VK trim) & in 1988 (updated Brock VL spec for half the season, then updated again to TWR VL spec for the end of the year). In the 1989 BTCC they followed the crowd and ran a Sierra RS500.

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

For the 1987 WTCC series, there were 2 VLs that made it to Europe.

VL Brock - #5 Rothmans Mofffat/Harvey/Mulvihill car was an ex-HDT chassis, sold to the Moffat equipe when HDT could not afford to run it locally after splitting with Holden.
This chassis is in Melbourne, still in Rothmans colours, owned by a collector

VL Brock - #3 Mobil Brock/Parsons/Crichton car was an HDT chassis (rumoured to be an updated VK) which only did Spa '87... till the engine broke anyway.
This car made it back to Melbourne, and was the team's spare for the domestic series that year.

Two made it to Europe for Australian teams, but where did the likes of the Serge Power Commodore's come from? Could they have purchased them of TWR (who had a brace of VK's & VL's at the start of 1987 in anticipation of a WTCC assault until Bernie stepped in)

[KA]

Originally Posted by racer69

Two made it to Europe for Australian teams, but where did the likes of the Serge Power Commodore's come from? Could they have purchased them of TWR (who had a brace of VK's & VL's at the start of 1987 in anticipation of a WTCC assault until Bernie stepped in)

that's the part that I've been wondering about- apart from O'Brien's ex-Grice VK in the BTCC there were at least 3-4 European-based VLs active in Europe in 87. I'm interested by what you said about TWR's brace of VKs and VLs- is that 2 of each, and if so where did they come from

I'd assume an organisation like TWR would have built it's own cars rather than buying them in, but why the VKs? I've got a very vague memory of a picture in Autosport showing a plain white VK with a TWR susnstrip on the windscreen, maybe in late 86, and we know they ran a VL in one 1987 race

This is a total guess, but if they had a brace of both VKs and VLs, could TWR have bought a pair of VKs in late 86 (possibly the ex-HDT 'European' pair?), to get to know the car and run initial testing while building their own VLs for the abortive 1987 WTCC campaign?

Once they'd pulled the plug on the WTCC project, there's no reason why they couldn't have been sold on- TWR obviously kept a VL, the blue/yellow car which appeared at the 'Ring, and then presumably became the prototype 'TWR' VL in 88, but the others being sold on could account for the Serge Power cars etc....

[Al Weyman]

Originally Posted by KA

As you said, Ric Wood's car was a later 90's model- apparently a VS

http://www.ricwood.com/holden_spec.htm

The earlier car sold to Peter Barnes is interesting though- didn't know about that one, but I'm intrigued over how much earlier a model it is...

All I can tell you was the bodyshape was the same as the the earlier 2nd generation Carlton, the one before the final model i.e NOT the shape of the Lotus Carlton but the one before that.

[Eddy V]

I know somebody who used to work with Serge Power. I think it was actually Paul Kumpen (now Peka Racing) who bought those cars.
Will try to find the guy, but as I have no phone number or anything else, it could take a while.
They even rallycrossed one Holden many years ago.

Then there was a private team who bought another Commodore for some pre Belcar stuff. But although it was a very fast car, it mainly broke race after race. Don't know what happened to that car.

[Tincorna]

I found this photo of the Rallycross Holden;



It's Jaques Frantzen (sp?) from 1991

[Al Weyman]

While on the subject and I have often thought if dropping a small block chevy into a late Carlton or Omega shell and race it as a Holden Commadore, are they basically the same?

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by KA

that's the part that I've been wondering about- apart from O'Brien's ex-Grice VK in the BTCC there were at least 3-4 European-based VLs active in Europe in 87. I'm interested by what you said about TWR's brace of VKs and VLs- is that 2 of each, and if so where did they come from

I'd assume an organisation like TWR would have built it's own cars rather than buying them in, but why the VKs? I've got a very vague memory of a picture in Autosport showing a plain white VK with a TWR susnstrip on the windscreen, maybe in late 86, and we know they ran a VL in one 1987 race

This is a total guess, but if they had a brace of both VKs and VLs, could TWR have bought a pair of VKs in late 86 (possibly the ex-HDT 'European' pair?), to get to know the car and run initial testing while building their own VLs for the abortive 1987 WTCC campaign?

Once they'd pulled the plug on the WTCC project, there's no reason why they couldn't have been sold on- TWR obviously kept a VL, the blue/yellow car which appeared at the 'Ring, and then presumably became the prototype 'TWR' VL in 88, but the others being sold on could account for the Serge Power cars etc....

Given that TWR had taken over the HDT's job of building special vehicles for Holden... I doubt an HDT car went to TWR

I can recall reading in Auto Action down here (when it was actually pretty good) that Mr Small of Roadways was asked to supply VK carby engines to TWR for them to base their '87 engine package on. Whether that actually happened is not totally clear.

Holden Motorsport would supply racing shells for teams down here, no reason to think they wouldnt supply them to Europe as well...

[KA]

Originally Posted by Tincorna

I found this photo of the Rallycross Holden;



It's Jaques Frantzen (sp?) from 1991

brilliant- the colourscheme is a match for the pic I posted a link to earler, so you've confirmed the date and driver, which I didn't have

[Eddy V]

Just so that you have the proper name: Jaak Franssen.

[KA]

Originally Posted by Eddy V

Just so that you have the proper name: Jaak Franssen.

Wasn't there another driver who drove the Commodore as well as Franssen- either the season before, or the seaon after?

[Eddy V]

Yes there were. A few seasons Paul Kumpen (former Peka Racing boss, now GLPK Racing) drove that car and then for one other season a clubracer tried it. Guess they were all before Franssen.
Kumpen then went on to circuit racing, as he'd won everything else in RC.

[KA]

Originally Posted by Eddy V

Yes there were. A few seasons Paul Kumpen (former Peka Racing boss, now GLPK Racing) drove that car and then for one other season a clubracer tried it. Guess they were all before Franssen.
Kumpen then went on to circuit racing, as he'd won everything else in RC.

I knew Kumpen was involved with the car, but had forgotten he'd driven it- didn't he also drive a Quattro and a 6R4 in the ERC, with the same Car Glass backing as the Commodore?

I've just found a couple of photos of it at another Lydden ERC round, in which it doesn't seem to have the full TWR bodykit- the bonnet has the smaller air intake used on the 1987-spec VL, and it may have the smaller VL rear spoiler- difficult to tell from the camera angle, and it's not a particularly good photo. I'll scan one and post it later

[Eddy V]

I know about the 6R4, don't remember the Audi. I've never been that much involved in rallycross, even if the track is only 15 miles away.

The first owner of Car Glass was a personal friend and fellow businessman of Kumpen, hence the permanent sponsorship over the years in RC and circuit racing.
I guess they still have some sponsorship on their cars now, whatever they run at the moment.


The picture of the white Holden in your post 4 was the one I mentioned being run by a private team, but it had many different guises.
I think Kumpen bought that one as well afterwards and ran it himself.

[Camaroz]

Originally Posted by KA

http://www.ricwood.com/holden_spec.htm[/URL]

The earlier car sold to Peter Barnes is interesting though- didn't know about that one, but I'm intrigued over how much earlier a model it is...

The 'earlier car' you refer to was an ex-MHDT 1984 VK Group C that Cleland ran in ThunderSaloons. That car is now back in Australia.