[Rules] Proposal: Special points scale for selected races

[NaBUru38]

With 20 races a year, I feel that Grands Prix wins are getting less worth than in the past. Also, the classic races don't seem so special in comparison with other races. Even winning at Monaco doesn't give drivers a bonus over winning at Bahrain or Turkey.

So I propose to pick a couple of races and give more points. I'm thinking about Monaco, Silverstone, Spa, Monza, Suzuka and perhaps a sixth race, like the season ender (to increase championship drama), or Abu Dhabi for being a night race, or Australia for its tradition and being a street race. I'd vote for Singapore and its 23 corners or Canada fo being far from the other races, but their are too close to other classics.

With 25-18-15-12-10-8 as the regular top 6 scale, I'd give these five or six races 50-30-25-18-12-8 points.

[fourWheelDrift]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

With 20 races a year, I feel that Grands Prix wins are getting less worth than in the past. Also, the classic races don't seem so special in comparison with other races. Even winning at Monaco doesn't give drivers a bonus over winning at Bahrain or Turkey.

So I propose to pick a couple of races and give more points. I'm thinking about Monaco, Silverstone, Spa, Monza, Suzuka and perhaps a sixth race, like the season ender (to increase championship drama), or Abu Dhabi for being a night race, or Australia for its tradition and being a street race. I'd vote for Singapore and its 23 corners or Canada fo being far from the other races, but their are too close to other classics.

With 25-18-15-12-10-8 as the regular top 6 scale, I'd give these five or six races 50-30-25-18-12-8 points.

I have two answers:

a) this is a really bad idea in principle and smacks of the tabloid mentality quiz shows where the ante is upped at every stage so that the winner is not revealed too early.

b) If the principle were to be accepted Bernie would simply sell the races with extra points to the highest bidder and they would not be the classic races just the ones in Wealthy middle Eastern countries with dubious political systems.

Next someone will suggest we give each team a joker to play during the season which would give them double points at the nominated race.

[wnut]

Just now some nitwit is going to propose golf type handicaps, or back to ballast like the touring cars. urgh!

[ChrisPage]

Just reading Senna vs Prost at the bit where the championship used to have 'best X of Y results' counting, so this idea isn't quite as outlandish as it may appear. I suppose though the dropped scores was intended to help in the days of poor reliability? Can someone with more historical knowledge confirm that?! Dropped scores helps at club level where a competitor might not be able to afford the whole season, but at the top all race should count the same.

So keep all the points the same says I. Like #2 says - Bernie will only auction them off, so Bahrain will end up counting the same number of points as all the other races combined.

[jab]

I don't think it's that mad, as it works for tennis and (I believe) golf as well. Only, you'd have to have 40-50 races a year to make it work properly - a proper tour, as I've proposed here in the past

[thebear]

Perhaps the points system could be `adjusted' to compensate inversely with the fastest lap at each event? That would surely muck up the works.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by wnut

Just now some nitwit is going to propose golf type handicaps, or back to ballast like the touring cars. urgh!

I remember when Tyrrell got done for using ballast in 1984.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I remember when Tyrrell got done for using ballast in 1984.

I never really got to the bottom of that one.

They had some lead balls in one of the tanks apparently to make up the weight.
The penalty always seemed to me to have been totally over the top and probably finished Tyrell as a team in the end. Great pity!

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by wnut

I never really got to the bottom of that one.

They had some lead balls in one of the tanks apparently to make up the weight.
The penalty always seemed to me to have been totally over the top and probably finished Tyrell as a team in the end. Great pity!

They used lead shot. There's quite a good synopsis here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrrell...84_controversy

[wnut]

Thanks for that BJ.

So this was what the teams were actually after

With the only non-turbo team now not officially an entrant, the remaining teams had the unanimity they required to amend the rules as they wished. Tyrrell's exclusion meant they lost all points from the 1984 season and, with them, subsidised travel benefits to the following year's championship, a huge additional cost.


With the only remaining charge that really stood Unsecured Ballast.

Sentence way too harsh for the crime imo. Dumn to have done too!

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by wnut

Thanks for that BJ.

So this was what the teams were actually after

With the only non-turbo team now not officially an entrant, the remaining teams had the unanimity they required to amend the rules as they wished. Tyrrell's exclusion meant they lost all points from the 1984 season and, with them, subsidised travel benefits to the following year's championship, a huge additional cost.


With the only remaining charge that really stood Unsecured Ballast.

Sentence way too harsh for the crime imo. Dumn to have done too!

It was the beginning of the end for Tyrrell.

[Bononi]

That's a sad story, people should never forget the lesson.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Bononi

That's a sad story, people should never forget the lesson.

Whats that - don't be different!

[NaBUru38]

Well, it seems that Bernie Ecclestone agrees with me: Formula 1 needs a few special races, not only in history and prestige. but in points and viewership.

There has to be a special race every 6-8 weeks. Many other individual sports have them, like golf and tennis.

[Schummy]

You don't have really a "World Champion" in golf or tennis or even in athletics (just one event). Moreover, they have a continuous top player classification along the year, like in chess ELO ranking. But in chess they have a proper World Champion beside the ranking.

In tennis it is more important to win Wimbledon or Roland Garros that being the first player in the ranking. In cycling the Tour of France is the most important achievement. Really they are very different schemes.

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Bonus points for special races ?

What double points? a different points structure altogether for these selected races, a Grand slam of 4 races?

Is that for Drivers only?
Teams - Yup Red Bull wins all the special races but with different cars/drivers
Engines - Mercedes win all the special races, 2 in McLaren, 1 in Force India (hey it's a fantasy idea) and 1 in a Mercedes Chasis

It's a gimic to try and hold attention to F1 during the next couple of off weeks before the test weekend.

[Adam43]

I like the idea. A bit like rankings in tennis (as mentioned above). There are Grand Prix and there are Grand Prix.

[chillibowl]

i also like the idea. the 'build up' to one of the majors does work well for golf and tennis.
maybe not sold on extra points but if there was additional prize money and a super bonus if one driver could win all 4 majors in a year would certainly add an extra layer of interest without taking anything away imo.

[VIVA GT]

But, as we've found already this year (four different drivers/teams winning the first four races) that the only reason anyone wins is when their car/driver combination can keep their tyres in the sweet spot for the race distance.
This would therefore favour whichever team can do that for the selected races (and there's no way the races could be 'selected' to ensure a level playing field).
This would be yet another opportunity for the conspiracy theorists to show how the results have been manipulated!

[OZ_HCR32]

Bit of a joke for Bernie to be saying this at the same time he is pulling the shades down over Spa's annual race!

If he wants to mix up the spectacle of the 20 round series, then mix it up. Not just the points which as someone else posted probably will mean he will just up his licensing fees for the "exclusive races"

So grab 2 to four races European races that have a 2-3 week break after them and increase the length of the race by 30-50%. Allow engines and gearboxes for just this event and provide points for quali, fastest lap and perhaps 30 points for a race win etc. That wont work as F1 is about the fastest cars...not an endurance trial (of course there is a mix of both as cars have to finish).

But its all for nothing anyway as that wont be able to be accommodated since the re-fuelling ban and it makes no sense to bring it back for only a few GPs. But it would be interesting to know just how far the cars could go on an absolute full tank of gas.

So the bigger specatcle would be to go with a track that isnt overly hard on tyres and give them a durable tyre to race on, so the fastest teams and drivers can actually have a go and drive the car to its potential....rather then carry and preserve like they need to in the days of heavy fuel loads and sensitive tyres.

But more than anything the golden rules apply here..."if its not broke, don't fix it".....but....he the ultimate golden rule..."he who has the gold makes the rules "

[Marbot]

I don't mind it. Although, it could have some teams building one off chassis for certain events like Monaco and Monza.

AFAIK, the current F1 cars have a fuel tank size that is just about adequate to complete a race distance at the track that uses the most fuel (Virgin showed us that you can get that very wrong). So, to go any further than that, you would have to bring back refuelling..........hmmm.

I also think that, for these 'special' races, some sort of handicap system should be put in place. Give the HRT cars 2 or 3 laps less laps to do.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

Bonus points for special races ?

What double points? a different points structure altogether for these selected races, a Grand slam of 4 races?

Is that for Drivers only?
Teams - Yup Red Bull wins all the special races but with different cars/drivers
Engines - Mercedes win all the special races, 2 in McLaren, 1 in Force India (hey it's a fantasy idea) and 1 in a Mercedes Chasis

It's a gimic to try and hold attention to F1 during the next couple of off weeks before the test weekend.

Of course it's a gimmick. There are too many races and the excitement and anticipation of watching a GP, just isn't the same.

When I started following F1 there were roughly 12 to 15 races and each race was a unique event, eagerly looked forward to. Now it's just a sausage machine, churning out race, after race on featureless tracks. Cut the number of races and bring some of the magic back.

[Wims]

I absolutely hate this ridiculous, ludicrous idea

[fourWheelDrift]

We already had special races, and they didn't need double points.

Monaco - Unique location, Jewel in the Crown of the Sport. Yes I know it's dodgy from a racing point of view but as long as it's only once a year I love it anyway.

Spa - Best race track in the world bar none

Hockenheim - unique engineering challenge with the miles long flat out blast through the forest

Silverstone - OK just great because it's just round the corner

Japan - Iconic and unique figure of eight track

Monza - Historic home of motorsport, unique atmosphere

All this is gradually being dismantled in favour of cookie cutter Tilkedromes with no fans, no atmosphere, and no character. No wonder Bernie feels the need to make some of the races special again with his ridiculous idea.

[NaBUru38]

As I said, I'd give double points at these 5-6 races. Hey, the World Endurance Championship does that with the 24 Hours of Le Mans.