The Mythical Motorsports Ladder in Sports Cars

Bob Baldwin · 11 Aug 2016, 20:07 (Ref:3665207)

Ok your Grandson has been racing Karts for 5 years Rotax then shifters consistently with top 5 finishes . He gets his drivers license at 16 and states he wants to move up to cars . Typically at this point you give him a course at Skip Barber OR other Drivers school . Perhaps even doing a few events in the Schools Race Peogram . At age 17 he has some options open to him :

Most Orgs will accept such as a start to building a CV or drivers resume'

The options could be start in a lower class in SCCA or NASA or similar type Org. Working your way up in Classes .

Mazda Road to Indy ? Cooper Tires F-2000 , then to Star Mazda ? then to Indy Lite and then Indy Car itself . Somewhat of a defined path as long as you have a Fat Wallet

NASCAR : Generally starting in a Lesser Regional Series Late Models or Modifieds . Then going to the K&N pro series , Trucks , Infinity Series and ultimately Cup cars . Again Somewhat of a defined Path if your wallet is fat .

Sportscars : ALWAYS start with a FAT WALLET

I know there are some independent Road Race Orgs around but my suggestion to him was start Trans-Am the lesser classes . then move to PWC mid range class for a year . THEN WSC but what Class ? Lites , the soon to be LMP 3 class or GTD class ???

There just does Not seem to be a defined path OTHER than wherever you want if the wallet is still full . From what I gather over the years It is not unlikely that IMSA would turn down anyone that had the cash and was considered a Gentleman driver reguardless of age .

I should have also mentioned adding to ones CV Resume' participating in either Ferrari , Lambo or Porsche cup series .

So what exactly is the Sportscar Motorsports Ladder ?

A good kid ,thinks before he acts ,respectfull of others . The only problem I see is he did ask which track had the hottest Babes ?

My response was keep thinking with your Brain and Not with your XXXX ! Dammm Hormones appear to be kicking in

Beryl · 11 Aug 2016, 20:12 (Ref:3665208)

Kart -> F4/FR2.0 -> F3 -> GT/LMP2

Bob Baldwin · 11 Aug 2016, 20:31 (Ref:3665211)

Beryl : that sounds like a European Plan to me . Not saying impossible but would like to stay in the USA

**FIRE** · 11 Aug 2016, 21:03 (Ref:3665216)

If he want race prototypes in the future than the "Cooper Tires F-2000 , then to Star Mazda" single seater route.

Fogelhund · 11 Aug 2016, 21:10 (Ref:3665217)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIRE

If he want race prototypes in the future than the "Cooper Tires F-2000 , then to Star Mazda" single seater route.

Yup, most sportscar drivers started in single seaters.

For example.

http://patricklong.com/bio/

Maelochs · 12 Aug 2016, 02:01 (Ref:3665266)

Yup. Mazda Road to Indy rarely ends up at Indy but does provide decent young drivers with decent rides and exposure.

of course, nothing happens without a fat wallet. Forget heel-and-toe-downshifting, learn the bended-knee sponsor suck-up.

Bob Baldwin · 12 Aug 2016, 02:41 (Ref:3665270)

Fogelhund : : Great example on the Patrick Long Bio . Right place at the right time . It goes to prove Hard work and making connections ultimately does open doors .

Other than the father owning the team any one have any insight on how the taylor boys got started racing ?

TzeiTzei · 12 Aug 2016, 05:22 (Ref:3665286)

Aren't the majority of sportscar drivers either guys with fat wallets or failed single seater drivers? Joking! Sort of...

Bob Baldwin · 12 Aug 2016, 13:02 (Ref:3665363)

Fat wallets for sure OR that could be true of some drivers in GTLM /GTE class

Though I tend to think that to many of the younger drivers they feel that arriving in the GT classes is totally fullfilling .

I guess the big question is are you Paying to Drive or are you getting Paid to drive ?

Which does open up the can of worms about the driver classification system

Akrapovic · 12 Aug 2016, 13:50 (Ref:3665368)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Baldwin

Fogelhund : : Great example on the Patrick Long Bio . Right place at the right time . It goes to prove Hard work and making connections ultimately does open doors .

Other than the father owning the team any one have any insight on how the taylor boys got started racing ?

Connections are important. It may sound silly, but get him on LinkedIn. Setup a good profile, with lots of information, photos and constant updates. Find out who the people in the ladder above are that he needs to know - team owners etc. Get connected to them. That way his updates will get pushed to their feed and his name is in their heads.

May not help, but it's worth a shot. Facebook and Twitter also worth looking at. Don't under estimate the internet for connections!

Fogelhund · 12 Aug 2016, 14:19 (Ref:3665372)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Baldwin

Fogelhund : : Great example on the Patrick Long Bio . Right place at the right time . It goes to prove Hard work and making connections ultimately does open doors .

Other than the father owning the team any one have any insight on how the taylor boys got started racing ?

After competing in karting, Ricky was series champion of single seaters' school Skip Barber Southern in 2006 and runner-up of Skip Barber National in 2007.

--------------------

http://www.motorsport.com/kart/news/...g-scholarship/

Apopka, Florida (January 15, 2007) -- Fifteen-year-old Jordan Taylor, youngest son of sports car champion Wayne Taylor, has now thrown his helmet in the ring in the automobile racing world. This past weekend Jordan was runner-up in the 10th Annual Skip Barber Karting Scholarship Shootout and Sebring International Raceway, earning himself a cool $25,000 scholarship.

Jordan, who has been racing go-karts since he was ten years old, only has a few car races and tests under his belt to date. This weekend's shootout was only his second major auto competition, including last year's Skip Barber Scholarship Shootout event.

Taylor and his fellow competitors all drove identical Skip Barber Formula 2000 wings-and-slicks race cars, rotating between different cars throughout the four Shootout days.

http://www.motorsport.com/openwheel/...stead-summary/

Jordan raced Skip Barber National as well.

So both karting, and then open wheel.

Bob Baldwin · 12 Aug 2016, 14:43 (Ref:3665377)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Connections are important. It may sound silly, but get him on LinkedIn. Setup a good profile, with lots of information, photos and constant updates. Find out who the people in the ladder above are that he needs to know - team owners etc. Get connected to them. That way his updates will get pushed to their feed and his name is in their heads.

May not help, but it's worth a shot. Facebook and Twitter also worth looking at. Don't under estimate the internet for connections!

Great points you are making here .He actually called me this morning and was thinking / Suggesting that even after the above things on social media he wanted imput about contacting some team owners about possibly " Interning " for them at no pay . I am sure this has been done before . Maybe not for all owners as some I am sure are concerned about liability but to my way of thinking it would be another "Positive " on a drivers Resume'

Doing this as opposed to a Gentleman driver just cutting a check to the team owner and showing up only for the weekend of an event .

Yes the family will be covering his costs as he does move up this ladder . Personally I think he has a great idea

MaskedRacer · 12 Aug 2016, 17:32 (Ref:3665396)

Amazingly the best ladder series ever has been the NASCAR Grand National (xfinity) series. That has worked out great despite the busch wackers issue many complain about (not me).

Relating to IMSA. LMPC was flawed because it already was in the ALMS/WeatherTech series. Those teams parked the bus (oreca flm) there. Is Conti and the single spec (Lambo, Porsche) series a good step into GTD however? Perhaps so?

There has never been a perfect feeder series. Never will be. Grand National is the closest though.

**joeb** · 12 Aug 2016, 17:45 (Ref:3665402)

Just like the Mazda road to Indy I believe they have a program in sports cars. Where the winner of the MX-5 cup gets a scholarship to participate in Lites races and then some Conti challenge races.

https://www.mazdamotorsports.com/web...=10001&langId=

MoMedic9019 · 12 Aug 2016, 18:32 (Ref:3665413)

Single seaters was the way to go back in the day...still is if you have single seater aspirations.

Now? Skip Barber, a year of Barber-Mazda Cup, MX-5 cup, CTSCC or PWC then Porsche Cup in the US, or UK. If you can get into German Supercup, you'll have a legit shot at the DTM, GTE, GT500 etc...

EDIT; While girls are girls... make sure he's as polished as he can be, that alone will take him much further. A good social media presence, ability to sell himself is incredibly important. As is school. Very few people are paid to race, many are paying... Listen to the dinner with racers Podcast of Patrick Long.. that dude is so squared away its not funny.

Kartracer88f · 12 Aug 2016, 19:20 (Ref:3665417)

I make my living in sports cars in the US (as a driver and coach).

You're missing a few necessary bits of information. The real question is, what is the annual budget you have, and how many years can you sustain it. Could you afford one really big and expensive year if you do less total years?

Chasing the "ladder" doesn't necessarily matter. I personally made the mistake of not progressing quicker and made life much more difficult (and really hurt my chances of certain drives) by not skipping steps on the ladder when I was capable (tested just wussed out)

Also, don't ignore the foreign route. The US sports car market isn't particularly good at the moment for un proven pros, and the US market is MUCH more expensive than Europe, and that goes double for Asia.

If you want to have a chat feel free to pm me and I'll give you my number, promise I won't bring up being a co driver (which is how most of the business works)

If not, no big deal, good luck! It's a tough world out there, but I would trade it for a desk job, that's for darn sure

MoMedic9019 · 12 Aug 2016, 19:40 (Ref:3665421)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kartracer88f

I make my living in sports cars in the US (as a driver and coach).

You're missing a few necessary bits of information. The real question is, what is the annual budget you have, and how many years can you sustain it. Could you afford one really big and expensive year if you do less total years?

Chasing the "ladder" doesn't necessarily matter. I personally made the mistake of not progressing quicker and made life much more difficult (and really hurt my chances of certain drives) by not skipping steps on the ladder when I was capable (tested just wussed out)

Also, don't ignore the foreign route. The US sports car market isn't particularly good at the moment for un proven pros, and the US market is MUCH more expensive than Europe, and that goes double for Asia.

If you want to have a chat feel free to pm me and I'll give you my number, promise I won't bring up being a co driver (which is how most of the business works)

If not, no big deal, good luck! It's a tough world out there, but I would trade it for a desk job, that's for darn sure

All of this is true, staying in the US can be way tougher... Go abroad. Japan especially, has tons of opportunity for a US driver.

WolfsburgRS · 12 Aug 2016, 21:07 (Ref:3665426)

Does he want to race prototypes or GT cars?

Bob Baldwin · 12 Aug 2016, 21:34 (Ref:3665429)

He prefers GT cars and may consider P3 cars if he spends a year in lites .

He has no phobias but is very much convinced that having a roof over your head is a very smart choice /

Bob Baldwin · 12 Aug 2016, 21:42 (Ref:3665431)

He prefers GT cars and may consider P3 cars if he spends a year in lites .

He has no phobias but is very much convinced that having a roof over your head is a very smart choice /

Sad to say I had never heard of the Mazda 24 ladder in Sportscars . Don't recall anyone mentioning it on this forum I actually thought that the Mazada ladder was the one that led up to the Indy series .

Coach Ep · 13 Aug 2016, 03:28 (Ref:3665469)

Kenton Koch came up the sportscar ranks like that, one season MX5 cup, followed by IMSA Lites into PC. He won a Rolex on his first race with the big boys. He came from SCCA Club.

kevin993 · 13 Aug 2016, 03:55 (Ref:3665471)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

make sure he's as polished as he can be, that alone will take him much further. A good social media presence, ability to sell himself is incredibly important. As is school. Very few people are paid to race, many are paying... Listen to the dinner with racers Podcast of Patrick Long.. that dude is so squared away its not funny.

Ryan is right on the money here. It pretty clear that people who are articulate and well spoken have a competitive advantage. I'm sure that Patrick went through hours of Porsche media training, but do you think that Dion von Moltke would have a job as an "Audi ambassador" this season even though he has no full time racing gig if he wasn't polished and friendly? How much do you think Acura loves the exposure they get from Ryan Eversley's social media presence? For what its worth, those are great skills to have regardless of whether you end up as a professional racing driver or something else. Have him polish his public speaking skills and his business skills. Learn the economics of the business. Learn some history - when you're talking to team owners, showing some appreciation for the sport and the history may not get the gig, but it may differentiate you and show some passion that others don't have. These are all ways to demonstrate maturity which often translates to good decision making on the track, respect for equipment, etc. Of course, raw speed may outweigh a lot of those things, but why not control those factors you can control.

My other observation is that this business very much depends on putting yourself in the position to take advantage of opportunities. Trying to create a rigid plan (but limiting your options) might or might not work, but I'd find ways to get track time and make relationships anywhere and everywhere I could. There are a hundred paths and he might make a new one. I've heard stories about people getting rides because they crossed paths with someone several years ago and made a good impression.

Best of luck to all involved.