Threat to Wimbledon Stock Car Stadium?

[Stephen H]

Just heard the news that Wimbledon AFC would like to acquire the Greyhound/stock car stadium as their new home.

Would be a real shame to loose the stock car track.

Tried posting a link below

http://www.afcwimbledon.co.uk/clubdo...ss_release.pdf

[kelvin88]

I remember signing a petition not so long ago that was to stop Wimbledon Stadium dying because of the low emission laws stopping the Banger boys turning up with their old lorries.

Looking at this new threat, I am starting to resign myself that the track is getting shut, one way or another.

[Stephen H]

Would be a shame, but there was talk of Arena Essex disappearing because of the Olympics, but the track has survived.

I expect it all depends the state of ground hound racing, and the finances of the football club.

But its sickening there was a football pitch by the traffic lights, and it got sold and built on.

How many football pitches does London need? This is the last remaining stock car track in London.

[danieljboys]

I'm sure I heard on LBC a few months back that a plan was going to be submitted (or actually submitted) to build 800 flats on the site. If they sell for £180-200k a pop think how much money can be made from that. I don't know how the GRA's business model works but I'm assuming the stock cars is just a handy top-up to the greyhounds, which in itself seems to be a dying pastime. Selling the site to developers could make a few people exceedingly rich, especially if they view greyhound racing's days as numbered. I went there for the first time last November (stock cars not greyhounds) and really enjoyed it (except for the shockingly overpriced/poor food).

[kelvin88]

and sadly, I think that is true of any stock car track. Arena Essex did swerve a compulsory purchase order a couple of years ago to turn it into a leisure park. My fear is that stock car racing simply doesn't bring the gate that it used to and, to be honest, even if you make all the drivers pay to race, the bottom line still would not be as good as you would get from re-development. And no. London does not need another football stadium. The whole f***ing world does not need another football stadium!

[winkle]

Without doubt we don't need any more football stadiums!

I have been going to Wimbledon since I was a kid, now 45ish and still a kid

I'm afraid the writing has been on the wall for some years, I know work has been done to tart it up but it is still an old structure with timber terraces etc. TBH i'm surprised it has survived this long given modern H&S bureaucracy and fairly low crowds. As Kelvin and many others did I also signed the on-line petition a while back.

I would have thought it would be cheaper for a football club to spend their money on developing a bare site rather than include the cost of demolishing most if not all of the existing stadium into the project.

On a positive note there is a new Aldershot stadium (I havn't been there yet) and stock car racing crowds seems to be growing again, so although I will miss Wimbledon when it finally goes to developers or football clubs whoever, I think/hope the racing will continue for long after.

[danieljboys]

Winkle, I lived within earshot of the original Aldershot stadium as a wee lad but never actually attended any meetings. The A331 Blackwater Relief Road was built through the site in early 93ish and I think any remaining trace of it was removed for housing around '99/00.

The new Aldershot Raceway is definitely a positive story for stock car racing in the UK. I visit a few times each year and had my first chance to race at the track in June in a Legend. The one thing that stands out is the number of paying spectators that are in attendance each meeting. 4000 people watched the first meeting there and each time I've been the crowd could definitely be measured in 3 figures, perhaps 4 on occasions. The events are also heavily promoted on 96.4 Eagle the week beforehand with ads outlining the specific classes racing on that weekend. I've been to a few other tracks where you know that everyone watching is related in one way or another to the competitors but Aldershot does seem to get a regular paying audience through the gate. Spedeworth have put in time with the facilities with the addition of a grass covered bank and covered stand (possibly rescued from the old Bovingdon track).

[kelvin88]

I am always impressed how well Arlington does for gate when you consider it races on a Wednesday night!

[ss_collins]

I think the real issue lies with the way the sport is promoted, the stadium owners and operators do themselves no favours by being so incredibly insular, and political. Wimbo should be full most race nights but its far from it. Oval racing has simply not kept up with the times - its a 1980's sport in the 2010's, indeed instead of modernising the ORC members have just squabbled. Oval racing seems like an end of the pier entertainment from the Carry-On film era, and looks as dated. It could be so so much more than it is but unless someone with real vision and a little bit of budget takes over the NHRPA, BRISCA and Spedeworth the sport will slowly die.

I was talking earlier with a major car manufacturer about racing, and they looked at the Velodrome events in the Olympics, especially the points race and pursuit and said "wouldn't that be fun indoors with Electric cars?" hard to disagree.

Kelvin knows my thoughts on this only too well but, hell if I won one of those mega jackpots in the lottery I'd buy as many oval tracks and series as possible, and within 3 years I'm certain I could double my money by just updating the whole thing and putting a bit of attention to detail into the branding, marketing and business model. I know how lucrative the sport is and also how many opportunities have been missed.

[winkle]

ss_collins, I agree that the sport could be promoted better and maybe given what danieljboys said about the new Aldershot, then that is starting to happen?

Regardless of the car manufacturers, If the future is electric racing in a velodrome then that's easy for me to disagree. No thanks!

I'm not so sure about "end of the pier entertainment" either. A modern national hot rod and particularly the silhouette/intermarque evolution of them are a force to be reckoned with on any circuit and entertaining to watch. I know i'm going off topic because silhouette/intermarques are not short oval.

As you say maybe it is purely down to branding and marketing. BRISCA F1 has had a lot of TV exposure in the past couple of years, has the popularity of it and attendance increased? That's a genuine question, I don't know.

Steve

[Stephen H]

http://www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/n...in_Wimbledon_/

The lastest news is not looking too positive for this grand old lady of Motorsport

[Stephen H]

With Planning permission now granted for Houses and a Football Stadium, the danger if very very real to the last Venue of its kind in London. Wimbledon Stadium.

I even saw one comment where the Stadium could be demolished as soon a April 2016. If true it means we are alredy into the Stadiums last half season.

So far it seems that the Football Crowd have been shouting the loudest, and on the whole the media a have totally ignored the long history of Short Circuit Racing at the venue.

Thankfully it seems one newpaper editor has at least recognised the plight of London`s last Permanent Motorsport Venue.

From that a petition has been started, the first evening it picked up 2000 signatures

Hope I'm allowed to post the link here?

https://www.change.org/p/boris-johns...cing-in-london

Even if you are just a casual fan, please sign. Lets at least show the world how much motorsport in general means to us, and how valued venues such as this are.

And it will be a great loss to loose The Last of Her Kind to housing and a football pitch.

[The Fat Clerk]

I remember watching Paul Warwick there.................happy days

[chunder]

ss collins it is rare I agree with you on anything but you have hit the nail on the head there.

Short oval racing is beset with insular politics and unjoined thinking, and if you try to tell them or expose their policies you are accused of ruining the sport or trolling as I have been for years now while exposing their garbage attitude.

One example, apparently BriSCA were invited to be at the Speedweek at Brands early doors but declined, why? Because Brisca do not promote any events near there and they would rather spend PR money wasting their time at the NEC every year to gladrag with suppliers! There are tracks near there, Arena, Ipswich, Wimbledon. It's just current BriSCA policy to keep within their group and keep the money to themselves. It might not do anything being at Brands, you can't really race, but it's an American themed weekend, NASCAR race there, most BriSCA drivers love NASCAR and buy their parts in America, see where I am going. Apparently BriSCA looked and decided against it, that is the type of thinking that is running my favourite sport!

Coventry stadium is also closing soon and their promoter spends all his time yabbering on about the Motofest thing they do there in the town centre, while he has 6 or 7 dates a year that instead of pushing to other venues on a Saturday night to try and increase their footprint will be sold to his favourite mates in the sport for their dates!

Wimbledon was never going to carry on with the emissions regs, it's why the big banger race was moved to Ipswich. The sad part is AFC have already ruined and taken over Kinsgtonians ground, and could have had the old Plough Lane a few years ago. And the even bigger irony is the MK Dons situation, it wasn't good enough for them years ago and now they want to come back as a shadow of themselves!

Problem is to local councils, you mention the word "houses" right now and you could build on a graveyard! That is how much of a timebomb housing is in London areas.

Crowds have not really increased winkle, Gears and Tears garnered interest on and off track, but BriSCA is now behind a paywall on Premier. And the laughable part of that is BriSCA pay nothing for it, it has to pay for itself and they will never put anything into it. It is this kind of insular, backward and actually destructive decision making that is causing a sport that could be very popular if pushed right, to just amble along making a small amount of poeple a living thanks very much.

[leonidas]

What saddens me about this is that Wimbledon football fans had their sport taken away from them by owners who didn't care anything for the history of their club. Now AFC Wimbledon (a fan owned club) are doing just the same to stock car fans who have had Wimbo as their home for decades.

Surely there must be a market for stock car racing in Britain's capital city and in the country that is supposed to be the motorsport capital of the world?

[kelvin88]

I signed this new petition too, but my statement from last year stands, Wimbo is going whether you like it or not.

[ss_collins]

Kelvin is right - Wimbo is done, I signed the petition too but I think what it serves is to show that the sport does need a home in London.

Problem is the people running oval racing in the UK now (and to an extent in Belgium/Netherlands) simply are not capable of working in the modern world. Look at the websites, the event presentation, the formulas and most importantly dealing with locals, local authorities and local business.

Wimbledon should have been a huge cash cow, think of its location, its entertainment value. But where was the marketing? Instead a slow decline was allowed to happen.

Its the same story at all the tracks - sadly I fear short track racing in the UK will be a thing of the past soon.

The old scrap metal merchant mentality is a thing of the 1980's, this is the post digital revolution world, we need 21st century oval racing.

Hmmm maybe I need to write a long piece on this

[chunder]

No one city deserves anything really. London is NOT and never will be again the place to have a race track, it is too populous and far too full of rich people and foreigners for it to ever work. Also it is not industrial, it is financial, how are you going to change that overnight? Nitro Circus? DIRT Showdown? 90 quid a ticket no thanks, this is working man's entertainment, not NBA Jam.

Mr collins attitude to short oval racing is predictably bad, but for those of us that spend a lot of time there there are good signs. Grids in a lot of classes are good, some tracks are under threat yes, but others are opening. There is a new speedway track in Manchester, new tracks have opened in Holland in the past few years and there are rumours of new ones in the UK, albeit in toxic waste parts of the UK where they can only be really.

London is not industrial, the market short oval has been catering for for years. The only way you could change that is money, PR, new purpose built tracks. So saying short oval racing needs to change is fine if you spend lots of time in America, but Europe doesn't care and never has for short ovals, no matter what you do. The two tracks built over here to capitalise on CART, Mansell mania etc were dismal failures as racetracks, with good crowds and good PR. It doesn't work, it never will work, Europe doesn't care about oval racing to that degree!

I agree that attitudes must change, but the people that run these places are small business men, not media moguls, they are incessantly fighting noise issues, delapidated buildings, some simply promote, they don't even own the venues so how on earth can you expect them to spend money improving a place they don't own!

I am not quite sure what 21st century short oval racing is supposed to be really. All that we need to get better is a Palmer type figure to be more ruthless, make hard decisions, and a lot of the issues are fixed. Right now you have a group of people who are content to take the money, do nothing and sit tight.

If you these basics the people will come, look at Santa Pod, simple measures taken, made a scrapyard into a reasonable venue and the crowds are good. It's not hard.

But it does help having a track in the middle of nowhere! Something most short oval racing venues are not, especially one in London.

[Stephen H]

Thanks to all those that have signed. its the Bears Banger Team behind the petition, so those that race and watch, rather than the Promotor.

I think the issue here, is that its a flood plain and land marked for leisure, and the proposed football stadium as with the alternative greyhound only stadium, is really about marking money out of houses, where houses have previously not been allowed.

In our heads i think we all know the future for Wimbledon, its not considered "Green", there is the issue of getting lorries in, the Stadium has been left to decline, and there are always going to residents who complain about noise.

But in this day and age, of sunday shopping and people glued to their smart phones, Stock Car racing at the Stadium still works well, it can still bring in a good crowd, and it is the one and only venue that is running regularly right through the winter, where spectators can watch in relative comfort.

So with our hearts lets just sign the petition and at least show other that our sport exists and we have passionate competitors and fans.

I think "The Bears Banger Team" have done an amazing job to get the petition up and running, at at least giving "the rest of us" as somewhere to have a voice and say what "Wimbledon Stadium and Stock Car Racing in General" means to us.

2000 signature on the first evening, I think its at 6000 now, but I also seem to remember the petition against Greyhound Racing got 15 000.

So please sign, even if its just in memory of the Venues Golden age.

[ss_collins]

London is NOT and never will be again the place to have a race track, it is too populous and far too full of rich people and foreigners for it to ever work.

Rich people and foreigners don't like motorsport?

Also it is not industrial, it is financial, how are you going to change that overnight

By moving with the times, promoting the sport properly, the things I have mentioned. Some tracks do it well most do not.

Europe doesn't care and never has for short ovals

I've seen some pretty big crowds which would disagree with that statement. Plus without proper promotion most people are totally unaware of short oval racing, hard to care about something if you don't know it exists.

I agree that attitudes must change, but the people that run these places are small business men, not media moguls, they are incessantly fighting noise issues, delapidated buildings, some simply promote, they don't even own the venues so how on earth can you expect them to spend money improving a place they don't own!

I am not quite sure what 21st century short oval racing is supposed to be really. All that we need to get better is a Palmer type figure to be more ruthless, make hard decisions, and a lot of the issues are fixed. Right now you have a group of people who are content to take the money, do nothing and sit tight.

Now you are on the same page as me, though 'media moguls' are required. The media can make or break short oval racing. The whole model of the sport needs to be revolutionised. It must keep its 'working mans (and womens) entertainment' core but it must become up to date.

[chunder]

Rich people and foreigners are hardly ever around to like this sort of motorsport, as they are not in the USA, it is blue collar only really. And places like London haven't contained a large percentage of blue collar workers for decades. But darts have managed it, so there is a chance. Just not every week or every month.

IN comparison with the US where short ovals thrive, that is my comparison, there is no other place than perhaps Aus and New Zealand, very similar in NZ but the contact element there is arguably harder than the UK. But again, a place totally isolated and therefore a captive audience, not so much the case in the UK where land costs a fortune in inner cities to capture that inner city blue collar vibe and crowd it managed to in the 70's.

Those cities were full of manufacturing and factories, they are not any more, so understanding that is pivotal to understanding why inner city ovals do not work any more.

People think there is a fanbase for NFL here too, but every week no chance! Three times a year fine. But not a franchise based in the UK, it would not last more than a few years.

[Stephen H]

Think we are missing the point. Wimbledon might not be doing the trade it once was, but it is stilling pulling in drivers and crowds throug the winter months. I remember when we used to have thriving circuit racing winter series through ioctober and November kicked off by the Formula Ford Festival and the Grandstand FF2000 championship. We used to have thriving Rallycross events right through the winter, with racing at two tracks in Kent, with the Lydden Winter Series and the Shell Oils Championships. All these have gone, and the last two attempts to get a New Years Day Rallycross back, have had to be cancelled.

So nothing is as it was, but Wimbledon is our last Winter Sports Motorsport Venue. The land was ear marked for leisure and sport. And it is not a case of Wimbkedon AFC coming home, they never played in Plough Lane.

The save the Wimbledon campaign, is just a banger team, trying to give the sport a voice. I think they have done amazingly well in such a short time. Over 10,000 signatures, articles in papers, meetings with MP's and Councillors, and "ex Superstox 221" Derek Warwick voicing his support for grass roots Motorsport.

The question is, does London need really need another football pitch., at the expensive of the last of the Grand Old Stadiums.

Do we want choice, do we want the choice to be able to go short circuit motor racing during the winter months. Do we want somewhere that is warm and dry, where families go, and children can have their interest sparked in the whole world of Motorsport.

Looks like there is just one more day to sign the petition before the planning decision is reviewed by the Mayor of London.

[chunder]

The big problem is Stephen the bigger picture.

And that is housing, same as Coventry stadium closing, the BriSCA worlds biggest stadium at the end of this year. It was always going to happen there sadly.

If you could build housing at Wimbledon no council worth their salt will refuse, especially in London where housing is at a premium that it has never been at before.

If you keep it as is you are offering nothing. If you knock it down for housing only you are offering nothing but that, if you want a footy stadium, perhaps some local facilities and housing no council worth their salt would and should turn that down.

It might mean a stadium closing but if you had to make the decision as a local councillor without a vested interest you would, Imagine if it was an old factory or warehouse site or train station. No-one would care, yet years before that site employed hundreds of people, more important than any houses, stadiums or anything else, yet no fuss is made.

Alternatively the ideal is to push the stadium a lot more, rebuild parts of it, improve the local industries, try and get some big stuff like a Speedway franchise and a GP there. But the chances of that happening are nil.

[Stephen H]

Oh I am well aware of the bigger picture. At an early stage the Greyhound bid dropped including Stock Cars in its proposals, as it thought "dropping the noisy sport" would help it get residents onside. Plus no stock cars means no pits, so space to build houses which in turn finances the new stadium.

I'm pretty certain if the owners did not get their way for planning permission, they would have just done what happened to the Speedway team, and put rent up till it was no longer viable run Stock Cars or Greyhounds, and then the site would be left to decay, till one day it "accidentally caught fire" or similar.

I think most of the Stock Car world has stood quiet, and just accepted Wimbledon was going to be a memory like Crossing Hand or Wisbech.

But I really admire that a few Banger drivers, didn't want to let it go quietly, and just started by trying to give away a stuffed toy called "Boris" in a competition on Facebook, to highlight their sadness at the planning decision, to then getting Newspaper interest, to a petition that got 2000 signatures in one evening.

I know 10,000 signature isn't enough to save the day. Wimbledon AFC has 36,000 twitter followers, so if they rallied the many, they could squash the valiant Bears Banger Teams Efforts. But also from Twitter, I see the club seemed pleased to get 640 something fans at its last away match. So maybe they are not that popular.

And from visits to Croft, look what happen to Darlington..they knocked down the Football pitch in the Town, built that shiny new 25,000 seater Stadium on the outskirts, and in 2012 with attendances of 2000, stopped playing there.

So my head is in the real world, but my heart admires the passion of a few Bangers Drivers, who have achieved a great deal to raise public awareness in less than a month.

So I`m just glad there is a way to say "We don't like this". and I just urge any motorsport fan to back "The Brighton Bears Banger Team" and sign the petition. Just to say Wimbledon Stadium was "ours" she was an important part of our lives and we will miss her.

And the Capital will be poorer for her loss. London gains nothing by having yet another Football Pitch, but it looses a complete Sport with over 50 years of History. London is a heading mix of old and new, the Lndon Eye looking over the Houses of Parliament, The Shard over The Tower of London. It is richer for a mix of old and new.

There is just a day left to sign, before the planning decision is reviewed.

Just google "save Wimbledon stock car racing" to find it.

[chunder]

Sadly fella London is a shadow if its former self.

It is now a city full of wealth from all over the world, all the local people have been driven out by rising housing costs and it is largely inhabited by the super rich or the very poor living 10 to a house working in retail parks and distribution centres.

It is also a giant airport terminal, there is no London, it is just a huge centre for every single race, creed, colour and shape.

Nothing wrong with that per se, but all identity is lost.

Aswell as a stock car stadium that only really works for a few months of the year and the rest of the time is a white elephant surrounded by a toxic waste London suburb renowned for the biggest tennis tournament in the world and a football club so in love with the place they sold out and moved to Milton Keynes.

Knock it down and move on I am afraid, it has no future whatsoever. Though as you say I admire the passion of the banger fans, but in all honesty bangers are what keep most short ovals going in the UK, I detest the things and everything they stand for, but without them the sport I love would be gone.