Cost of cars?

kmchow · 29 Jun 2003, 00:57 (Ref:645738)

Often quoted costs. yeah, yeah, I know these are publicly disclosed costs. Actual costs could be more, but...

ST car-$250K US
V8 Supercar-$250K US
Nascar-$175K US?
Grp N car-$100K US
BTC Car-$125K US
LeMans GT1 racers-$1M US
ETCC car-????

What about a JGTC car??

**GTRMagic** · 29 Jun 2003, 01:52 (Ref:645754)

They would be construction costs for materials used in building the car, but I doubt would include an amortisation of the design costs, the Catia software designing the cages, the suspension... the zillion hours on the engine dyno.....

alfasud · 29 Jun 2003, 05:05 (Ref:645787)

Just for a comparison, I got the following from Alfasport New Zealand. All these are for a new race prepared Alfa Romeo 156 (2.0L). The numbers are probably a few years old now and I've converted to U.S. dollars at todays exchange rate:

Group N ... $75k NZ ~ $44k US
Group N+ ... $167k NZ ~ $97k US
Superproduction ... $300k NZ ~ $174k US
Supertouring ... $1,300k NZ ~ $754k US

The previous figure (from kmchow) of $125 US for a BTCC car sounds a little too cheap to me - I would have expected it to be more expensive than Superproduction (but less than Supertouring). Current ETCC would also be more expensive than Superproduction.

Group N prices would obviously be higher than quoted for the Alfa, if the base car was more expensive - a BMW M3 for example.

alfasud · 29 Jun 2003, 05:21 (Ref:645789)

Another datapoint - in February 2001, Cars and Car Conversions magazine tested an Alfa Romeo 147 Superproduction race car at Alfa's Balocco test track. The price was quoted as UKP 80,000 ~ about $132k US.

kmchow · 29 Jun 2003, 05:39 (Ref:645790)

Quote:

Originally posted by alfasud
The previous figure (from kmchow) of $125 US for a BTCC car sounds a little too cheap to me - I would have expected it to be more expensive than Superproduction (but less than Supertouring). Current ETCC would also be more expensive than Superproduction.

Oh yeah, I recall reading in European Car, a 95 DTM car, brand new, would cost $800K US.

I recall used BTC cars were capped at 120K GBP which works out to: $200K US. So I'm not sure what kind of depreciation a 1 year old racecar is hit with.

kmchow · 29 Jun 2003, 05:56 (Ref:645796)

Quote:

Originally posted by alfasud
Group N ... $75k NZ ~ $44k US
Group N+ ... $167k NZ ~ $97k US
Superproduction ... $300k NZ ~ $174k US
Supertouring ... $1,300k NZ ~ $754k US

Alfasud, thanks for offering your price points. That said, $754K US seems real high for a ST car. I recall Andy Rouse was offering his self-built Corollas for 120K GBP which works out to $250K US. That price is in line with the one quote by Dodge.

But then, BTC rules were supposedly 30-40% cheaper than ST rules? So assuming 120K GBP as being the new cost of a BTC car and a 30% saving, a ST car would cost at least $325K US??

kmchow · 29 Jun 2003, 06:23 (Ref:645799)

Quote:

Originally posted by alfasud
The previous figure (from kmchow) of $125 US for a BTCC car sounds a little too cheap to me - I would have expected it to be more expensive than Superproduction (but less than Supertouring).

I forgot to say that 125K was the max allowable for a 1 year old used BTC car.

That said, piecing together everyone's sources, it seems we're looking at:

Group N ... $44k US <--looks reasonable
Group N+ ... $97k US <---looks reasonable
Superproduction ... $130K-174k US
According to TOCA Aus, SP costs $35K AUS(??) to convert from stock to SP? Seem like a very low number?
S2000 - higher than SP so @ $200K US???
BTC - $200K US???
ST - at least $250K US
V8 Supercar - at least $250K US
DTM - $800K US
LeMans GT1 racers-$1.5M++

What is the diff between a SP and Grp N+? Are the 2 terribly close? I recall reading a World Challenge Touring car is about 100-150K. I don't know if it's closer to GrpN+ or SP rules.

**GTRMagic** · 29 Jun 2003, 06:28 (Ref:645800)

TOCA Aus?? Who are they? ASTEM??

A set of proper Penske, Ohlins, Proflex or Eibach dampers with the external cannisters, and total adjustability are in the region of US$20k so to say its $35k to take a road car to super proddie is dreaming!

kmchow · 29 Jun 2003, 06:47 (Ref:645803)

Quote:

Originally posted by GTRMagic
TOCA Aus?? Who are they? ASTEM??

A set of proper Penske, Ohlins, Proflex or Eibach dampers with the external cannisters, and total adjustability are in the region of US$20k so to say its $35k to take a road car to super proddie is dreaming!

http://drive.fairfax.com.au/content/...rt/motor2.html

I'm not sure if he meant 35K AUS or US dollars? But to be fair, it was probably his initial estimates!

**GTRMagic** · 29 Jun 2003, 06:50 (Ref:645805)

TOCA Australia shut up shop in Australia in 2001....

Funny reading about the words of Kelvin OReilly, who is now the Chairman of the V8Supercar franchise owners group TEGA.... who his old TOCA role competed with

flor · 29 Jun 2003, 15:00 (Ref:646079)

a 2002 DTM car is around 1-1.5mio €

kmchow · 29 Jun 2003, 17:34 (Ref:646255)

Quote:

Originally posted by flor
a 2002 DTM car is around 1-1.5mio €

Which doesn't seem much cheaper than the a new 95 DTM car?

But besides initial car costs, there are running costs as well. The new DTM cars are supposedly cheap to run compared to the old DTM ones?

flor · 29 Jun 2003, 17:54 (Ref:646267)

they are very cheap compared to the old ones

in the old dtm you had to change the engine ervery weekend and they were very expensive, some ppl say 500.000marks which is about 250.000$ and there were lots of new engine steps during the season, if i remember right alfa even brought a completely new car in the middle of the 95 or 96 season , the new dtm cars cannot need one engine per season

also the carbon brakes can be used a lot longer than the old dtm steel brakes

plus the old dtm cars had active suspension, traction control, sometimes even moveable rear wings and other very very expensive stuff in it + there was a tyre war between michelin and bridgestone

the_extreme · 1 Jul 2003, 04:16 (Ref:647966)

Quote:

Originally posted by kmchow
Often quoted costs. yeah, yeah, I know these are publicly disclosed costs. Actual costs could be more, but...

ST car-$250K US
V8 Supercar-$250K US
Nascar-$175K US?
Grp N car-$100K US
BTC Car-$125K US
LeMans GT1 racers-$1M US
ETCC car-????

What about a JGTC car??

Front running 250 SuperKart faster than most of the above at $20k go figure

alfasud · 5 Jul 2003, 02:18 (Ref:653006)

True, a superkart.... or a maybe superbike, or jumping out of a perfectly good aeroplane for that matter...

Back to touring cars, I had another look at the Cars and Car Conversions magazine where they quoted GBP 80,000 (US$132k) for the Superproduction Alfa 147.

They also made the comment that one Britsh team reckoned GBP 45,000 (about US$75k) for a BTCC production class (almost identical to FIA Superproduction) Ford Focus. They did say that the Alfa 147 was a very professionally built, brand new, ready to race works car with everything you could possibly ask for, including on-board air jack system, but they still couldn't quite see the GBP 35,000 difference.

Given the cost of those dampers mentioned by GTRMagic, it's probably not too hard to imagine some variation in cost from one end of the grid to the other. The Alfa was listed as running the Penske dampers.

**GTRMagic** · 5 Jul 2003, 07:02 (Ref:653059)

There are quite a few different types of shocks in the range, called a proprietary brand but with varying levels of adjustability.... more adjustability cleans the bank account out a little more... then the work begins on working out which settings to use.... $$$$$$

kmchow · 5 Jul 2003, 15:32 (Ref:653396)

Updated costs taking into account new info.

Group N ... $44k US <--looks reasonable
Group N+ ... $97k US <---looks reasonable
Superproduction ... $100K-135K US (as high as 174k?? US)
According to TOCA Aus, SP costs $35K AUS(??) to convert from stock to SP? Seem like a very low number?
S2000 - higher than SP so @ $200K US???
BTC - $200K US???
ST - at least $250K US
V8 Supercar - at least $250K US
DTM - $800K US
LeMans GT1 racers-$1.5M++

cos · 6 Jul 2003, 15:11 (Ref:653944)

RJN Motorsport are selling one of their ETCC-spec Primeras for only £32,000 in Autosport this week which could run in the BTCC next year, bargain!

**touringlegend** · 6 Jul 2003, 15:46 (Ref:653967)

Buy it now and there'd be enough time to get it on the pace, well, maybe..

kmchow · 7 Jul 2003, 06:07 (Ref:654414)

Quote:

Originally posted by cos
RJN Motorsport are selling one of their ETCC-spec Primeras for only £32,000 in Autosport this week which could run in the BTCC next year, bargain!

I think the long held phrase--you get what you pay for applies in this situation?? If I recall correctly, these were ETCC spec, but not ETCC competitive??

I think they gave Volvo a run for their money?

andy_b · 7 Jul 2003, 09:09 (Ref:654553)

although these are proddies, I remember seeing the BandQ accord (cato/breese one from last year?) advertised in AS for ages for £50k. Not sure if it was actually sold. Also haf the Beacon ones in a while back, but no price

racingdick · 7 Jul 2003, 09:28 (Ref:654567)

2 meganes suitable for the proddy class bout 10k each or 18k for two

mm if only

crouyer · 11 Jul 2003, 03:09 (Ref:658455)

holy shnickeiz!!!!!

kmchow · 11 Jul 2003, 06:55 (Ref:658538)

OTOH, you wonder what's "wrong" with the cars when they're being sold for so cheap!

**Craig** · 11 Jul 2003, 07:49 (Ref:658556)

Quote:

Originally posted by andy_b
I remember seeing the BandQ accord (cato/breese one from last year?) advertised in AS for ages for £50k. Not sure if it was actually sold.

I believe it's gone to the great parts bin in the sky now...

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