|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
21 May 2004, 10:15 (Ref:977499) | #1 | |
Racer
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 364
|
Control Suspension and Brakes
Bill Woods reported during the sports section of the 10 news tonight that things are about to change in the category.
Control Suspension and Control Brakes, and a reduction in downforce to allow greater braking distances and thus increasing overtaking. I didn't pick up if he said when this would take effect but one would assume it would be for the start of the 05 season. Main reason is to reduce costs in development . What's everyone else think???? I personally think it will be great. |
|
|
21 May 2004, 10:25 (Ref:977508) | #2 | ||
Race Official
1% Club
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 47,376
|
And on go the costs to redevelop to the new configuration...
Change in the name of cost reduction just doesnt work... that the racing may improve as the spectacle gets better, with more cars able to use common engineering solutions, would make sense... ... as long as if 2005 is the implementation date, that the inherent value in the 35 cars participating in the series, plus the sheds full of spares, isnt rendered worthless/uncompetitive overnight! |
||
__________________
Go woke, Go broke… Here’s hoping a random universe works out in your favour… The meaning of life… ENJOYING THE PASSAGE OF TIME! #CANCERSUCKS |
21 May 2004, 10:48 (Ref:977528) | #3 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,534
|
Why don't we just go to control chassis as well, then the only difference would be the engines and bodyshells, oh, wait, that's NASCAR!
|
||
__________________
Mos Eisley spaceport, A more wretched hive of scum and villiany you will not find anywhere in the galaxy, we must be careful. |
21 May 2004, 10:49 (Ref:977532) | #4 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 777
|
How mucher further could they go in common suspensions,
spring, shock rates, construction material? I agree with reduced d/f but control brakes and further suspension control is going overboard, lets leave a little scope for the engineers and innovation. |
|
__________________
Kieron |
21 May 2004, 10:51 (Ref:977534) | #5 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,767
|
I fail to see the sense in control components, period.
Last edited by Chucky; 21 May 2004 at 10:51. |
||
__________________
"...full of sound and fury, yet signifying nothing...." |
21 May 2004, 13:34 (Ref:977717) | #6 | ||
Rookie
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 16
|
removed due to it being complete speculation and could also result in some trouble
Last edited by marcus; 10 Jun 2004 at 09:21. |
||
|
21 May 2004, 23:52 (Ref:978203) | #7 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,327
|
The only component that needs looking at is teh gear box, we need the sequential box update and as for the rest let the teams fight it out. But I do agree tthat they need a ceiling on cost but it would appear this impossible without detracting from the spectacle.
|
|
|
22 May 2004, 00:22 (Ref:978220) | #8 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,387
|
The NZ V8's don't seem to be having too much trouble getting interesting racing out of their spec cars. The cars look good and there are plenty of them out there. In saying that though there could be a bit more technology and power put into the cars to make them go a bit better and to make them more reliable.
|
||
__________________
Life is all about Ass. You're either covering it, kissing it, kicking it, laughing it off, busting it or trying to get a piece of it. |
22 May 2004, 00:28 (Ref:978225) | #9 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,043
|
Quote:
And changes like have been announced are not going to reduce costs. Teams will just find other ways to spend the money. In soem cases these changes will raise the cost, as teams spend more money trying to get their heads around the changes. |
|||
__________________
"The Great Race" 22 November 1960 - 21 July 1999 |
22 May 2004, 00:36 (Ref:978234) | #10 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,387
|
I don't think they are going to do it immediately. The new rules are supposed to be fully or mostly phased in from 2006 onward. I also heard they were talking about banning pit to car telementary and vice versa which will certainly make it more interesting.
|
||
__________________
Life is all about Ass. You're either covering it, kissing it, kicking it, laughing it off, busting it or trying to get a piece of it. |
22 May 2004, 02:23 (Ref:978287) | #11 | ||
Rookie
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 4
|
It all makes sense now. 888 comes to touring cars in oz, roland joins the board, they complain about the freedoms that make the v8 series too expensive, bill woods talks about controlled components and to finish off 888 tenders to supply all the control sus and then makes a killing like it does supplying btcc. Not a bad business plan.
|
||
|
22 May 2004, 03:09 (Ref:978318) | #12 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,005
|
The noise on from HV is for sequential boxes for next year.
|
||
__________________
»-(¯`v´¯)-» vørtex ©®»-(¯`v´¯)-» ê¿~ v8 Supercars Holden/Toyota/Ford |
22 May 2004, 03:49 (Ref:978329) | #13 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,994
|
If this opens the door to more rounds then great,but I doubt that it will.
Look at all the things that have been taken out of the control of the teams and think about the costs still soaring. Gearbox is free except for the ratio's, make and model and material used in it's construction Diff is free except ratio's,pinion/crown wheel diameter and weight of entire unit. Aerodynamics are basically free as long as it is the same as everybody else independant drag/downforce from manufactures is now outlawed Tyres are a item that are only restricted by the brand, compound,construction,number of cuts in wet weather tyres and number of tyres used over course of year Suspension is changed in the standardisation of suspension style,pick up points,suspension travel,diff location method and rear roll centres adjustability.Roll bars are free but the method of adjustment has been more defined than was originally the case Brakes are hampered in the number of calipers, pistons and diameter of front rotors and material used in the construction.Pad stops have been added to prevent anyone doing the longer races on one set of pads. Chassis have evolved to be much easier to repair with large sections of the car now held on with pop rivets and velcro type tape.Mirrors are no longer free and must be from the original car.Drivers positoin has been restricted to a certain area and steering colum location fairly fixed. Weights have increased by 30kg over all and restictions are placed on how this weight is distributed front to rear. Fuel system has been revamped with a maximum fuel pressure,injectors,fuel cell shape,1/4 panel to fuel cell filler diameter,type of re fueling method and fittings to be used on both the car and boom(control fuel always used) number of sensors on car, Engines are only resticted in the weight of main components,diameters of bearing surfaces and materials used in there construction.The location of the engine is strictly enforced and is the same for both cars as is the number,type and brand of injectors,brand of ECU and it's functions and the method of driving the water pump. Data logging has arrived,run rampet and been knobbled with all enjoying the excercise particually MoteC and Pi and As these above changes have led to a huge increase in costs I for one will take a bit of convincing that getting control suspension arms that cost $200 max each and can give almost a full years service in favorable conditions (ie no shunts) is going to make any impact at all. The great thing is that almost all of the main players are the same as 10 years ago if you ignore the name above the door where these cars come from.The thing is the less scope you have to work with the more excacting the behind the scenes engineering to maximse the parts you have. Anyone want to hazzard a guess what it cost to fit out a 2004 model team garage verses the 94 annexes that adorned the trucks and what cost it is to extend the stay of the team members that have to carry out this task. Off set this with the millions that is made by the merchandise component of the show,added exposure and higher profile enjoyed by any one sector be it sponsor or what ever and it makes for some interesting maths.:confused: :confused: :confused: Last edited by Onlooker; 22 May 2004 at 03:53. |
||
__________________
Succes is a result of judgment,that is inturn a result of experience that has come from instances of bad judgment. "Montoya made some last minute changes to his suspension but it seemed to effect it's handling"-Classic |
22 May 2004, 04:01 (Ref:978331) | #14 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,005
|
I heard TC say there will be no extra rounds until the current TV deal is up which is 2006 or 7 I think.
|
||
__________________
»-(¯`v´¯)-» vørtex ©®»-(¯`v´¯)-» ê¿~ v8 Supercars Holden/Toyota/Ford |
22 May 2004, 05:23 (Ref:978372) | #15 | |||
Racer
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 472
|
Quote:
|
|||
|
22 May 2004, 05:29 (Ref:978376) | #16 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,994
|
Quote:
Perhaps the headline should be "How can we retrench a large chunk of middle to upper management form our teams". or "How do we get these engineers out of the drivers seat in the spending dept" as this is where a fair portion of our biggest expense comes from. |
|||
__________________
Succes is a result of judgment,that is inturn a result of experience that has come from instances of bad judgment. "Montoya made some last minute changes to his suspension but it seemed to effect it's handling"-Classic |
22 May 2004, 06:32 (Ref:978397) | #17 | |
Rookie
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 67
|
Isn't it amazing, the A.T.C.C. IS for cars that don't exist on the roads in the form they are depicted as on the ractrack .The current touring cars in AUSTRALIA are really a copy of the US Nascar scenario ,but running on tracks totally unsuitable for these cars and formula!!!!!!!!
|
|
|
9 Jun 2004, 09:55 (Ref:998202) | #18 | ||
Race Official
1% Club
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 47,376
|
I found this interesting... Go Here and you will see ads for a sequential shifter mechanism for a number of gearboxes used in Group C cars, and other racers....
Makes me wonder why the big kafuffle, with the shifter $580 or something ridiculous for this road version, its hardly a cost impediment, even if they make it out of unobtanium! |
||
__________________
Go woke, Go broke… Here’s hoping a random universe works out in your favour… The meaning of life… ENJOYING THE PASSAGE OF TIME! #CANCERSUCKS |
13 Jun 2004, 01:05 (Ref:1002186) | #19 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,033
|
|||
__________________
. . . »-(¯`v´¯)-»........................The retro report........................©®»-(¯`v´¯)-» ê¿~ Disclaimer; the above is pure speculation and only posted for entertainment purposes!!! |
13 Jun 2004, 08:24 (Ref:1002378) | #20 | ||
Race Official
1% Club
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 47,376
|
There arent any holes in the sides for the pistons and conrods to poke thru
|
||
__________________
Go woke, Go broke… Here’s hoping a random universe works out in your favour… The meaning of life… ENJOYING THE PASSAGE OF TIME! #CANCERSUCKS |
13 Jun 2004, 08:26 (Ref:1002379) | #21 | ||
Race Official
1% Club
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 47,376
|
On a serious note... who thinks the control tyre should be improved in spec and therefore softened to allow the kind of racing this weekend to continue on less grippy circuits???
|
||
__________________
Go woke, Go broke… Here’s hoping a random universe works out in your favour… The meaning of life… ENJOYING THE PASSAGE OF TIME! #CANCERSUCKS |
13 Jun 2004, 13:27 (Ref:1002574) | #22 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,387
|
I thought the weather during qualifying had as much to do with this weekends racing as anything else, and the nature of the track.
|
||
__________________
Life is all about Ass. You're either covering it, kissing it, kicking it, laughing it off, busting it or trying to get a piece of it. |
13 Jun 2004, 13:42 (Ref:1002580) | #23 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,196
|
My 2c worth is that many of these things will be OK cost wise but will do absolutely nothing to improve the racing (on all tracks).
1. The points system is ridiculous. Drivers will be more inclined to have a go if were 10-6-4-3-2-1 or something - give them the incentive to stop processions. 2. Get rid of the aero and reduce the size of the brakes so increase the braking distances. 3. The biggest one of all - Compulsory Pitstops - is a blight on the whole show. Look at the Barbagallo lap 2 farce. As I've said, make the races long enough to make a strategy possible (like F1) or ban them alltogether. Heavy tanks at the start and shot tyres at the end makes for great racing (it will also stop Ch 10's obsession with showing every single pitstop). And if you absolutely MUST have them, make it so you cannot pit under the safety car...then everybody is on a level playing field. |
|
__________________
"You can get lucky and win one championship but not two ..." Jamie Whincup. I wonder which person with the initials RK he was referring to. |
14 Jun 2004, 02:22 (Ref:1003061) | #24 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,994
|
Nice opening post, I am sure I speak for most when saying a very special hello from everyone to you too.
Unfortunatly as it is a public holiday some people may not get to witness many more of your posts |
||
__________________
Succes is a result of judgment,that is inturn a result of experience that has come from instances of bad judgment. "Montoya made some last minute changes to his suspension but it seemed to effect it's handling"-Classic |
14 Jun 2004, 02:48 (Ref:1003077) | #25 | ||
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 12,053
|
and gone
|
||
__________________
In Loving memory of Peter Brock I hate it when im driving in a straight line & Seb Vettel runs into me GO THE MIGHTY HAWKS !!!! |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
effects of rear suspension on front suspension | TEAM78 | Racing Technology | 11 | 6 May 2006 23:38 |
What if there was some sort of control shocks or suspension? | WebberForWDC | Australasian Touring Cars. | 52 | 5 Jan 2006 05:42 |
Which Brakes? | topwelshman | Racing Technology | 4 | 20 May 2004 21:16 |
Brakes | Slowcoach | Racers Forum | 20 | 13 Apr 2004 07:57 |