Control Suspension and Brakes

[Lowndesfan6]

Bill Woods reported during the sports section of the 10 news tonight that things are about to change in the category.
Control Suspension and Control Brakes, and a reduction in downforce to allow greater braking distances and thus increasing overtaking.
I didn't pick up if he said when this would take effect but one would assume it would be for the start of the 05 season.
Main reason is to reduce costs in development .

What's everyone else think????

I personally think it will be great.

[GTRMagic]

And on go the costs to redevelop to the new configuration...

Change in the name of cost reduction just doesnt work... that the racing may improve as the spectacle gets better, with more cars able to use common engineering solutions, would make sense...

... as long as if 2005 is the implementation date, that the inherent value in the 35 cars participating in the series, plus the sheds full of spares, isnt rendered worthless/uncompetitive overnight!

[1200Datto27]

Why don't we just go to control chassis as well, then the only difference would be the engines and bodyshells, oh, wait, that's NASCAR!

[Conrod Kieron]

How mucher further could they go in common suspensions,
spring, shock rates, construction material?

I agree with reduced d/f but control brakes and further suspension control is going overboard, lets leave a little scope for the engineers and innovation.

[Chucky]

I fail to see the sense in control components, period.

[Hes Back]

removed due to it being complete speculation and could also result in some trouble

[Also a Believer]

The only component that needs looking at is teh gear box, we need the sequential box update and as for the rest let the teams fight it out. But I do agree tthat they need a ceiling on cost but it would appear this impossible without detracting from the spectacle.

[pete55]

The NZ V8's don't seem to be having too much trouble getting interesting racing out of their spec cars. The cars look good and there are plenty of them out there. In saying that though there could be a bit more technology and power put into the cars to make them go a bit better and to make them more reliable.

[racer69]

Originally posted by Also a Believer
we need the sequential box update and as for the rest let the teams fight it out. But I do agree tthat they need a ceiling on cost but it would appear this impossible without detracting from the spectacle.

Why do we need a sequential update. They should take the gearboxes the other way, give them a production gearbox and drivetrain.....


And changes like have been announced are not going to reduce costs. Teams will just find other ways to spend the money. In soem cases these changes will raise the cost, as teams spend more money trying to get their heads around the changes.

[pete55]

I don't think they are going to do it immediately. The new rules are supposed to be fully or mostly phased in from 2006 onward. I also heard they were talking about banning pit to car telementary and vice versa which will certainly make it more interesting.

[MarkNat]

It all makes sense now. 888 comes to touring cars in oz, roland joins the board, they complain about the freedoms that make the v8 series too expensive, bill woods talks about controlled components and to finish off 888 tenders to supply all the control sus and then makes a killing like it does supplying btcc. Not a bad business plan.

[vortexo]

The noise on from HV is for sequential boxes for next year.

[Onlooker]

If this opens the door to more rounds then great,but I doubt that it will.
Look at all the things that have been taken out of the control of the teams and think about the costs still soaring.

Gearbox is free except for the ratio's, make and model and material used in it's construction

Diff is free except ratio's,pinion/crown wheel diameter and weight of entire unit.

Aerodynamics are basically free as long as it is the same as everybody else independant drag/downforce from manufactures is now outlawed

Tyres are a item that are only restricted by the brand, compound,construction,number of cuts in wet weather tyres and number of tyres used over course of year

Suspension is changed in the standardisation of suspension style,pick up points,suspension travel,diff location method and rear roll centres adjustability.Roll bars are free but the method of adjustment has been more defined than was originally the case

Brakes are hampered in the number of calipers, pistons and diameter of front rotors and material used in the construction.Pad stops have been added to prevent anyone doing the longer races on one set of pads.

Chassis have evolved to be much easier to repair with large sections of the car now held on with pop rivets and velcro type tape.Mirrors are no longer free and must be from the original car.Drivers positoin has been restricted to a certain area and steering colum location fairly fixed.
Weights have increased by 30kg over all and restictions are placed on how this weight is distributed front to rear.

Fuel system has been revamped with a maximum fuel pressure,injectors,fuel cell shape,1/4 panel to fuel cell filler diameter,type of re fueling method and fittings to be used on both the car and boom(control fuel always used)
number of sensors on car,

Engines are only resticted in the weight of main components,diameters of bearing surfaces and materials used in there construction.The location of the engine is strictly enforced and is the same for both cars as is the
number,type and brand of injectors,brand of ECU and it's functions and the method of driving the water pump.

Data logging has arrived,run rampet and been knobbled with all enjoying the excercise particually MoteC and Pi and

As these above changes have led to a huge increase in costs I for one will take a bit of convincing that getting control suspension arms that cost $200 max each and can give almost a full years service in favorable conditions (ie no shunts) is going to make any impact at all.
The great thing is that almost all of the main players are the same as 10 years ago if you ignore the name above the door where these cars come from.The thing is the less scope you have to work with the more excacting the behind the scenes engineering to maximse the parts you have.

Anyone want to hazzard a guess what it cost to fit out a 2004 model team garage verses the 94 annexes that adorned the trucks and what cost it is to extend the stay of the team members that have to carry out this task.

Off set this with the millions that is made by the merchandise component of the show,added exposure and higher profile enjoyed by any one sector be it sponsor or what ever and it makes for some interesting maths.:confused: :confused: :confused:

[vortexo]

I heard TC say there will be no extra rounds until the current TV deal is up which is 2006 or 7 I think.

[Bigguy]

Originally posted by racer69
SNIPTeams will just find other ways to spend the money. In soem cases these changes will raise the cost, as teams spend more money trying to get their heads around the changes.

Upgrade to "C-triple" transporters?

[Onlooker]

Originally posted by pete55
I don't think they are going to do it immediately. The new rules are supposed to be fully or mostly phased in from 2006 onward. I also heard they were talking about banning pit to car telementary and vice versa which will certainly make it more interesting.

Given that everybody already owns not only the equipment required for this but employ the staff needed to use it effectively where is the cost saving to any large extent.


Perhaps the headline should be
"How can we retrench a large chunk of middle to upper management form our teams".
or
"How do we get these engineers out of the drivers seat in the spending dept"

as this is where a fair portion of our biggest expense comes from.

[Pierre]

Isn't it amazing, the A.T.C.C. IS for cars that don't exist on the roads in the form they are depicted as on the ractrack .The current touring cars in AUSTRALIA are really a copy of the US Nascar scenario ,but running on tracks totally unsuitable for these cars and formula!!!!!!!!

[GTRMagic]

I found this interesting... Go Here and you will see ads for a sequential shifter mechanism for a number of gearboxes used in Group C cars, and other racers....

Makes me wonder why the big kafuffle, with the shifter $580 or something ridiculous for this road version, its hardly a cost impediment, even if they make it out of unobtanium!

[retro]

click here to see some of the new engines - could be the place that FPR get their engines

(this is a joke ;-))

[GTRMagic]

There arent any holes in the sides for the pistons and conrods to poke thru

[GTRMagic]

On a serious note... who thinks the control tyre should be improved in spec and therefore softened to allow the kind of racing this weekend to continue on less grippy circuits???

[pete55]

I thought the weather during qualifying had as much to do with this weekends racing as anything else, and the nature of the track.

[deeks6]

My 2c worth is that many of these things will be OK cost wise but will do absolutely nothing to improve the racing (on all tracks).

1. The points system is ridiculous. Drivers will be more inclined to have a go if were 10-6-4-3-2-1 or something - give them the incentive to stop processions.

2. Get rid of the aero and reduce the size of the brakes so increase the braking distances.

3. The biggest one of all - Compulsory Pitstops - is a blight on the whole show. Look at the Barbagallo lap 2 farce. As I've said, make the races long enough to make a strategy possible (like F1) or ban them alltogether. Heavy tanks at the start and shot tyres at the end makes for great racing (it will also stop Ch 10's obsession with showing every single pitstop). And if you absolutely MUST have them, make it so you cannot pit under the safety car...then everybody is on a level playing field.

[Onlooker]

Nice opening post, I am sure I speak for most when saying a very special hello from everyone to you too.

Unfortunatly as it is a public holiday some people may not get to witness many more of your posts

[marcus]

and gone