When to throw a red flag?

[Tweed]

Now, before everyone gets carried away with today's race ( which was brilliant by this year's standards ), don't you think a red flag should have been shown after Eau Rouge on the first lap?

Remember in France 1998 when a Stewart had stalled on the grid, offline, forcing a re-start? Since then we've had safety cars out with cars on top of each other, drivers concussed having driven into concrete walls, debris everywhere.

You do get the feeling it's all to keep the TV schedules going ok, but it's very inconsistent. There might have been fewer incidents later on had the race been stopped and a proper clean-up been done. Just left a bad taste in my mouth ( without detracting from the brilliant race action, of course! ).

[Knowlesy]

The france 1998 red flag was somewhat contrived IMO.

You do wonder what it takes for one to be thrown nowadays though.......probably only a driver fatality.

[Tweed]

Well, I didn't want to say.....

[BootsOntheSide]

The other thread on this has a lot of potent comment agaisnt the current approach. There were cars streewn across the track at the fastest par tof the course, and debris in the first 2 corners - both of which lead onto long straights and terrifying corners. The fact that 3 pucntures later occurred as a result of the debris pretty much says it all - Button was incredibly lucky Zsolt's car was there to cushion the impact.

[medler]

Originally posted by BootsOntheSide
The fact that 3 pucntures later occurred as a result of the debris pretty much says it all - Button was incredibly lucky Zsolt's car was there to cushion the impact.

I'm sure Zsolt feels a lot better knowing that

Not sure if it should have been a red flag or not. If they had restarted the race we may have had another collision on the first corner. Also none of the driver were stuck in thier cars it was just clearing the track and that seems to be the real problem clearing the track of small shards of carbon fibre, but I believe this is going to be sorted for next year. In the mean time a bigger broom might be in order.

[Tweed]

Medler, your sig is the way I feel about the topic!

Funny, isn't it...

[Fantasy GP610]

Why can't the tracks have little motorised sweepers to pick up the carbon fibre.......must be more efficient than a man with a broom :confused: :confused:

These tyre failures are getting beyond the "Well it happens" scenario.

[mark_l]

Charlie Whitings view of the accidents must be clouded by having his head in the sand whilst chanting the mantra "nothing must delay the tv schedule".

Its time Charlie was replaced with someone who cares about driver safety and not the TV schedule.

[Dutton]

Most tracks do have giant hoovers things I am sure.

Seemed very strange with just the broom today.

[luke]

Should of thrown the red with drivers going of at 200}mph with a puncture is dangerous, didn't see the race but guessing on the situation should they have gone through pit road like the guys should of at Indy....Ah I now why they proably didn't because the pit lane entrance is excits turn 1.

[alesi95]

Germany 2001 was red flagged after Burti's accident because the amount of debris on the circuit was unacceptable. Some say it was because Schumacher was involved.

[Knowlesy]

Well, the debris on the track was substantial. A puncture at over 200mph is not desirable at all. That was the right decision.

[touringcarnut]

Its a tough call to make, but I think the first incident should have been a red flagger, there 's nothing worse than following the safety car lap after lap, with a lap being so long at Spa. Still, it was a great race!

[Al Weyman]

Most tracks do have giant hoovers things I am sure.

Probably because the length of the circuit would have meant the race would have been over before those slow old sweeper machines got there

[Mike_Wooshy]

why not get like an air blower and blow where the incident is so any debris etc etc get blown off the track to the grass ????

[Al Weyman]

And if a car takes to the grass................

[Yoong Montoya]

Originally posted by knowlesy
You do wonder what it takes for one to be thrown nowadays though.......probably only a driver fatality.

Probably not even that - they refused to red flag Monza 2000 and Melbourne 2001 even though a marshal got killed

I guess drivers and marshalls are all expendable aren't they? I just hope Schumacher gets out of F1 before he becomes it's next victim. Same with everyone else.

[codename_47]

If they're THAT worried about another crash on the re-start, then throw the red, but when it's safe and the clean up is completed, start the race behind the safety car wet race style, if you want to ensure a clean start...

Or is that too logical for F1 these days? :confused:

[Fish_Flake]

Today's situation was inexcusable. I thought that a red flag would be necessary just because the two cars (the Minardi and the Jordan) were blocking the track, let alone for the debris that the field shed beginning even before La Source. The well-being of the drivers on the track (and the spectators around it, for that matter) is far more important than fitting the race in for the TV audience. It's Formula 1: TV stations will extend their coverage if they need to, especially on a Sunday afternoon. It's not like they have anything better to show. The teams shouldn't have to settle for the this; the drivers definitely shouldn't. There have been so many incidents this year that deserved a red flag—just for a few minutes—to give safety crews some time to clean the circuit. The result will not be good if a tire failure comes as a driver reaches Parabolica or the 130R. The luckiest thing is that none of the tire failures came at Eau Rouge or Blanchimont.

[BootsOntheSide]

Good thinking codename. They could even line the cars up in the order they were running after the first sector, with the guys who were stopped on teh track at the back, so that those who are getting a second chance don't get every position back, and the guys who made good starts retain that reward.

Blowing the debris onto the grass isn't a great idea, as DC would've picked it up when he went off after the incident with Klien, and a car spinning towardsa barrier would have less chance of stopping if a tyre went over debris and punctured.

[touringcarnut]

Originally posted by Fish_Flake
The luckiest thing is that none of the tire failures came at Eau Rouge or Blanchimont.

Now that would have been extremely nasty.

[Kicking-back]

Originally posted by mark_l
Charlie Whitings view of the accidents must be clouded by having his head in the sand whilst chanting the mantra "nothing must delay the tv schedule".

Its time Charlie was replaced with someone who cares about driver safety and not the TV schedule.

That is very unfair.

Charlie Whiting has done a hell of a lot on safety through the years.

[stevebrown]

Charlie is a technical bod. yes he has done good with car safety but he has never marshalled. I don't think he publically acknowledged the deaths in Monza or Oz. He shouldn't be in the position of race director he has no grasp of what marshals do. he probably thinks they get paid! he should be removed as Race Director and the job given to someone who has at least an ounce of marshalling and track safety knowledge.

Steve B

[Morris 1100]

Red flag when the track is completly blocked and the safety car for anything else.

If the teams are worried about bits of carbon fibre on the track then they should stop using so much! (barge boards, winglets, etc.)

[cos]

I feel sorry for those who paid to go and see the race - spectators were cheated out of seeing some "racing" and instead watched the cars trundle around at half speed for ages.

Still, I have a feeling that throwing the red flag and re-starting would actually be safer - off the top of my head I can't remember a recent first corner incident where someone was seriously hurt or injured. the majority of accidents causing injury happen in the main part of the race, not the start.