Why wont BAR race Davidson?

[Frank_White]

The reality is (and i'm not bashing here) if Davidson is soooo good BAR would feel no weight about Button leaving and would race Davidson instead.

This leads to the conclusion that BAR clearly do not regard Davidson as special talent, certainly not on the level of Button.

Sadly, it seems this feeling has filtered through to the other teams in the paddock and I dont see Davidson getting a drive anywhere for next year.

[BIGMOUTH]

I think Davidson is probably pretty good, but like you say nothing wonderfully special - just like Button!

I said all along that they should have run Ant instead of Sato because at least they might have a better chance of 2nd in the WCC if they had a more consistent points scorer than Taku.

[Adam43]

Originally posted by Frank_White
This leads to the conclusion that BAR clearly do not regard Davidson as special talent, certainly not on the level of Button.

The issue of whether they put him in a race seat next year is immaterial to Button (assuming he leaves). He has to be the best available to them. In their opinion.

The positives include that he is quick (on Fridays), they know him, he seems to have good technical feedback...

The negatives include that he is still inexperience to some, expecially in F1 race experience...

BAR know more about him and the above than we do (well most of us ) and BAR know what their priorities are. They may think race seat time is more important than technical feedback. They must consider themselves a top team and as such it is rare that such an inexperience driver would get a seat. Who knows, we'll see...

[Kicking-back]

We don't know that BAR won't be giving Davidson a race seat.

But they can't announce anything until the Button issue is settled.

[BootsOntheSide]

For next season, Davidson is certainly under consideration for the race seat. As you say, only BAR themselves really know how representative his Friday pace is.

Button has continued to race extrememly well since the Williams deal was signed and amidst the subsequent ruckus, and BAR have continued to give him a good car. He's the leading drive rin the team and the best hope of getting 3rd in the WDC/2nd in the CC. Dropping him now would be petty.

[Glen]

I've only just realised what was meant by the topic question - you mean drop Button NOW and put Ant in?

Are you mad? BAR want to win, they want to beat Renault. Button has proven time and time again tis year that he can deliver that - why on earth would BAR not use their best driver?

Ant may or may not be up to a decent ace drive - but there isn't a team manager on te pit lane that would rather have him than Button at this stage.

[mstar]

i agree with Glen ARE YOU MAD!! drop the person who scored 75% of BARs points ??? where and how did you come up with that logic ????

Button is one of the best RACE drivers in F1, sato might match and beat him in qualiy but he has (i might be corrected) never out-raced button in a straight fight

[Rennen]

Perhaps Davidson is more use to them at the moment continuing to develop a car that has lept from 5th in the constructors to 2nd...it's called 'team work' actually!

[sonic]

The fact is they overlooked Davidson twice already - in hiring button and then sato.

Both times I don't think talent was the key deciding issue.

DR took on button because he was a big fan from his karting days - and Davidson was an unknown quantity.

Sato - whilst, yes, he is very good you don't have to be a genius to figure out the pressure from Honda to have him in the team.

whatever the reasons I totally agree that it has damaged his reputation amongst other teams though. And BAR are in no hurry to big him up and have another team steal a brilliant test driver.

its third time lucky for Richards - I just hope hes got the guts to make the best decision of his life.

[Glen]

Originally posted by Rennen
Perhaps Davidson is more use to them at the moment continuing to develop a car that has lept from 5th in the constructors to 2nd...it's called 'team work' actually!

Absolutely - and it's a vital job. Especially for the forthcoming race - BAR will have more data and be able to try more options than their rivals - and it is vital that they preserve continuity when they do that... another driver doing that job would not be providing information that is as useful.

[joe rossi]

Maclaren think very highly of Wurz and De la rosa don't they? but they don't give them a race seat. Like it or not, PR comes into it big time, as well as talent. Button was signed because he is a "name" so is Sato, in Japan particularly. Sure Davidson is talented but so are many others..he isn't going to fire up a marketing dept the way Button will, or even DC.

Thats why I believe that the other BAR drive will go to a known quantity next year, DC or someone else. I don't think BAR will take the risk on an unknown, especially when Sato isn't the polished team leader package yet.

[strider]

Originally posted by joe rossi
Thats why I believe that the other BAR drive will go to a known quantity next year, DC or someone else. I don't think BAR will take the risk on an unknown, especially when Sato isn't the polished team leader package yet.

Correct, in my opinion. Sato is confirmed. One way or another Button will end up at Williams, so that means it has to be someone with experience. Hakkinen would have been fantastic, but has apparently decided not to pursue his comeback plan now that the Williams opportunity has gone, so DC or who else?

[Frank_White]

Okay, i never said Davidson isnt a good or even great third/test driver. Also, i never said Button should be dropped this season to make way for Davidson.

What i am saying is that, BAR has never touted Davidson as a potential racer for BAR. In fact i seem to recall Richards ruling out Davidson for a driver role. Even Davidson no later than a day or two ago was holding out hopes of getting a drive in Jaguar (i guess those hopes r now dashed).

If BAR regarded Davidson as soooooooooooooo talented he would be the perfect replacement for Button. He has spend the whole year as a third driver and at the end of the season he will be very familiar with all of the circuits.

If Davidson is as good a racer as those friday performances suggest, it would seem that he should be the first choice for the job. regardless of how the contractual decision goes i cant see BAR hanging onto button after the mini war or words and the obvious disloyalty. As Flavio Briatore said, He cant see BAR hanging onto a Button in those circumstances, cause Button aint no TGF.

This goes back to my speculation some months ago that Davidson magical friday times are partly sham.

Finally, how can BAR be hanging onto Davidson as a friday driver as some here are suggesting when it is now clear that BAR will finish no lower than 4th in the rankings and as such will definately not be eligible to run a third driver on race weekends.

[acf8181]

i think theres a very good chance of davidson egtting a call up to the race team if jenson does actually leave (which likely) next year. his biggest rival has to be DC at the mo...but he'll be pricey and isn't championship material, but may geta few race wins mind. i thought DC was a good fit with jag, but now they've gone it leaves his options limited.

if button stays at BAR i bet williams will go for pizzonia.

[Fondmetal]

Originally posted by BIGMOUTH
I think Davidson is probably pretty good, but like you say nothing wonderfully special - just like Button!

I said all along that they should have run Ant instead of Sato because at least they might have a better chance of 2nd in the WCC if they had a more consistent points scorer than Taku.

bull!! a few outings in the minardi and the antman is a super hero!! but didnt he stuff it in the gravel at hungary and spa???

beside his friday runs are false..running empty tanks.. while other do long runs....whats the point in creating a false hype!!...

[garcon]

Fondmetal you have absolutely no foundation for claiming that Ant's Friday runs are false. Every time you bring it up others (who do actually know better) refute it, so why keep repeating it?

So far, I've not heard or seen anything to suggest that BAR won't race Davidson next year, and although I definitely believe Ant is worth a race seat somewhere, I also think BAR may be better off with Sato and Couthard. Unless the BAR management (who let's be honest see alot more of the lad than any of us do *) believe Ant is ready and are willing to take the leap with him.

Whatever happens, I doubt Sato's seat is in jeapardy. Not because Honda want him to stay, but because he doesn't deserve the boot.

* except perhaps Rennen!

[F3lollipops]

I've said it before and I will say it again.

Ant and Takuma would make a great pairing in any team... after all, it worked out ok for them in 2001

(Where were you at Knockhill?)

[Rennen]

Originally posted by Fondmetal
bull!! a few outings in the minardi and the antman is a super hero!! but didnt he stuff it in the gravel at hungary and spa???

beside his friday runs are false..running empty tanks.. while other do long runs....whats the point in creating a false hype!!...

You and Frank make a fine pair of 'Doubting Thomas's'...if you had both paid as much attention as I (and other people in the know always do) to the official live timing data on Fridays on www.formula1.com (the very same data recieved by the teams)you both would be able to see he has the magical ability to do a fast time and continue to do many more laps after setting a very quick time...on your "empty tanks"! IF he was setting a fast lap and returning to the pits each time for more low fuel and more new tyres you might have a point!...BUT he doesn't!...I can assure 'my friends' that on only one occassion EVER (I've seen the data) has the team allowed him that luxury! It was at the end of second practice 'once' because he had completed all his scheduled testing work. BAR dont run a third car just for a drivers own self glory...or for fun! There is no value whatsoever in them doing that at all!...A third drivers prime function is to evaluate various items to be raced, and which compound of tyres would be best for the race. The truth is when AD goes out on new tyres at the begining of each long run, 'that' is HIS only opportunity to 'show off' what he can do in terms of a fast lap (which he very frequently does) but in real terms that one fast lap is academic to the team...more important to them is the consistancy of the laps he then runs off. (and hes ultra consist, except when theres traffic!)

Let me give you a tip to be able to judge a drivers ability...make a note of each drivers FIRST flying lap in the first session (FP1) at each track. For example at the Nurnburgring (which AD had never driven around ever before) ADs first flying lap was 1.18.8 compared to Button and Alonso's of 1.18.7. on a circuit they had both raced on a lot over the past seasons.

They other point you both have failed to consider is how rarely AD makes an error compared to other race drivers when the track is at it's most 'green' (let alone test drivers) and is still fast...this to me and others signifies he is driving within his limits...yet still sets fast times!

It really surprises me how little some of you so called F1 fans really understand! It's really quiet pathetic!

[Knowlesy]

99.9% can see that Ant is an undoubted star.......

So you can pretty much discount the minority.

[Frank_White]

ok. Rennen, you and Knowlesy are saying that Davidson is obviously brilliant.

Considering that he has loads of test eperience and is now familiar with all of the tracks, can someone explain to me why NONE of the teams have clamoured to give him a seat?

Moreover, if the friday times are an accurate reflection of his abilities in an identical car to Button and Sato... then the only logical conclusion would be that (especially according the the extremely knowledgable Rennen) Davidson is more adaptable, talented and faster than both Button and Sato.

So in any logical world (except la la land where quite a few people live) BAR would hastily give such a talented lad a race seat. Not to mention the other envious teams around the paddock who would be seeking his services.

Finally, consider Paul Stoddard. Whenever he discovers a very talented driver (Alonso and Webber) his praise of them is never ending. He is always very garralous about their skills. Davidson drove 2 races for Minardi and i can't remember hearing any high praise at all (from Stoddard or elsewhere). What I do recall is Davidson beaching the car twice and complaining about power steering.

To my limited knowledge (unlike that of Rennen) it seems obvious that Davidson is in the mould of Luca Badoer and Alexander Wurz. He is an excellent test driver (at least BAR are always hinting so) but lacking in the speed and consistancy department as a racer.

I might be wrong but thats my logical take on the situation.

btw, even if Davidson scores a seat at BAR next year (which i greatly doubt) even he isnt holding out for one (despite the Button fiasco). It is still undisputable that he was never BAR's first choice.

[Knowlesy]

Ant got a lot of praise for his Minardi drives. Yes, he beached the car in both races, but that was after very good, consistent driving. Remember, he was thrown in pretty quickly on two difficult tracks.

If he's in the mould of Wurz, i see nothing wrong. Wurz was a very quick driver, hampered by team politics at Benetton in 2000. I am amazed he will be without a drive again in 2005.......five seasons without a race is nothing short of ridiculous for such a talented guy.

There have been various teams looking at Anthony but he has lost out at Sauber to Villeneuve (an ex-world champ) and will likely lose out at BAR because Sato will get another year (he deserves to) and they will want an experienced driver alongside Taku (DC?).....I hope I'm wrong though. Williams also showed a lot of interest and Sir Frank speaks very highly of him.

[neilap]

Unfortunately there are other factors considered besides speed in F1. Ant is quick and consistent in practice but he has not raced much (in F1) in the past years. Usually teams like Jordan and Minardi are a good place for drivers to outshine their teammates before getting into the "big leagues". To my understanding Ant, for one reason or another will not be paying for a race seat. Without paying for a seat then he has to depend on pure talent. There is plenty of talent in F1, infact talent accompanied by experience.
BAR is hoping to be title winners in the next couple of years. Even though they know Ant well its still a risk to put him in the car with Sato. Sato is fast but still learning. For a team that wants to win it is difficult to race with two unproven racers. Thus the dilema... Should they take the chance with two fast guys that in years may be amongst the best on the grid or race a "teacher and a student". IMO if JB had stayed one more year Sato would have had the chance to hone his skills even more and Ant would have by then been the perfect replacement of him going to a team that "gives him a better chance of winning the title", especially if he had a year racing for Sauber, Jordan or Minardi.
Alas the world is not perfect so I feel BAR is likely to race Ant if they have no expericnced and talented racers available. If they were still running mid to back pack they may take the chance but their current partners may not be as confident in signing a rookie for the 2nd best team in F1.

[acf8181]

why do people on this forum get so wound up?!

calm down dear, its only a forum!

i think anthony is good, others don't...nuff said!

[Adam43]

acf8181, you are right. Some posts aside (and hopefully these have been reduced), there is no reason to get so worked up. If you disagree with something then fine, but argue the point, it doesn't mean the other person is stupid.

[Adam43]

Back to subject.

I think it is clear that AD is a very talented tester. BAR are very happy with him and he seems to get his Friday program done each race weekend.

However, due to his lack fo F1 race experience, it is inevitable that question marks remain over his ability to deal with Saturday and Sunday at GP weekends. Every new driver has to start as a novice at some point, he is less of a novice than most!