NASCAR (relative) Newbie

[Dutton]

I'm living in Canada now, haviong moved here from teh UK a couple of months ago. Over the years in the UK I saw some NASCAR (Winston/Nextel mainly), but it wasn't exactly in abundant supply by a LONG shot.

Now that it is going ot be available rather a lot, every week of the year virtually, I am going to be able to follow it properly. Of what I have seen in the past, I have liked it on some occasions but not others. I've found it was a bit tedious on the really super-small ovals (called bull-rings, I think?); but the larger, super-speedway style tracks seemed to provide better action.

Clearly, in what I was saying above is not my definitive view of the sport or anything like it. I can only ever get a proper idea of it from following it properly - which is what I now intend to do.

I understand basically what is going on with it, but the new versions of qualy this year and stuff I am still a touch at sea with. So, with regards this, and the NASCAR series' in general, I was wondering if you could just get me up to speed as it were.

Thanks.

[Magical Trevor]

Hey Dutton, welcome to NA
I'll be sure to make a proper post with information on the sport tonight

[shiny side up!]

Welcome to North America, Dutton!

I think you will come to learn that the short track NASCAR races can be just as entertaining as the superspeedways, it is just a different type / style of race. The lower speeds make for more bumping and sliding around than they do at Daytona or Talladega. Whilst the cars run very close together at the superspeedways, any contact can lead to disaster, and any sliding usually ends in tears, too.

As for the new rule changes this year, here is a brief summary:

1. Rear spoiler height shortened by 1/2 inch. This makes the cars a little harder to control, and in tests so far drivers say it makes them a little less comfortale when side-by-side, but overall isn't too bad.

2. Softer tire compounds. NASCAR is hoping to add more emphasis on driver skill by emphasizing tire management throughout the race. It appears to be causing problems in Daytona, as tire temps are running very hot (upwards of 290F, when 250F is optimal). However, the tire delamination problems currently in the news (Goodyear has pulled 900 tires out of the paddock this week) are more down to a manufacturing problem of the tire's construction than it is due to the rule change.

3. Qualifying Changes: The top 35 cars in the point standings are guaranteed a spot in the race. 7 additional cars will make the race based on their qualifying times (field total=42 cars). There is an extra (43rd) spot available for a past champion who didn't make it in by normal means. Another qually change this year puts the cars in impound after qualifying so the teams cannot alter setup, fuel, or change tires before the race. This is similar to the F1 parc ferme rules, and in effect you race what you qualified barring a crash or mechanical failure in qually.

Hope that wasn't too long-winded!

[Dutton]

So whatis with the Gatorade Duel things? I was seeing that the top ten palces in the heas got to qualifying or something (excluding those already in). I must be getting confused.

I heard that for, I think, the first 5 races it is the top 35 on the basis of last year's constructor standings but after that it is on the basis of the current table. Is that right?

I was watching a couple of the practice sessions of the Nextel, and indeed tyre problemos going on. Here is hoping they sort out the construction issues for the race, for it wouldbeashame if severe blistering etdc proved to absolutely dictate the race.

Thre is a difference between enhancing driver competence via tyre managment and making it so difficult it is not posdsible to race at racing speeds consistently for long enough.

Anyway, that'll do for now. Thanks for the posts.

[BootsOntheSide]

Daytona uses the Gatorade Duels as part of its qualfying system. Essentially the fastest 2 in the previous testing session are guaranteed the front row starting spots, then the other guys get split into 2 races (they used to be called the Gatorade 125s but they've been extended and renamed), with the top 14 finishers of those making up the next 28 cars - the two winners go on row 2, the two runners up on row 3, and so on. The remaining places are made up from practice laptimes and then Provisionals. I'm not a NASCAR expert though, so don't quote me on this.

[Magical Trevor]

Ah, the modern wonder that is NASCAR qualfying
The whole system was retooled for this season;
I'll start with the first race, the Daytona 500, which has it's own unique system.

Last Sunday all the entrants for the race (57 of them) ran two laps by themselves trying to attain the quickest lap. The fastest two drivers are to start first and second for the Daytona 500. However, all the other cars (and the first two) must race in the Gatorade Duel for their position - odd-numbered qualifiers in the first race, even-numbered in the second.

For example, Dale Jarrett and Jimmie Johnson had the fastest and second-fastest speeds, respectively, from qualifying. So, Jarrett started on the pole (P1) for the first duel-with Jeff Gordon, who qualified third, starting second in the same Duel. Jimmie Johnson started first in the second duel, with Harvick (who qualified as fourth-fastest) starting second in that race. The fifth qualifier started third in the first duel, the sixth qualifier third in the second duel, and so on. However, this is only for those cars in the top 35 in owner's/team points last year-this will be explained in a bit.

Each Duel is 150 miles long, which requires at least one pitstop. They are run as normal races with yellow flag laps counted, etc.

Now, the tricky part.

Under the new system, the drivers whose team finished in the top 35 in points last year are guaranteed a spot in the race, as long as they showed up and attempted to qualify. Any cars not in the top 35 in points last year start their duel almost as if part of another qualifying list-the first non-top-35 car starts ahead of all other non-top-35 cars in the first duel, for example. For each duel, the fastest non-top-35 car in qualifying had a better chance of staying in on speed-they didn't need to be one of the first two cars to race into the 500, as will be explained:
Those who did not finish in the top 35 in points last year had to "race their way" into the 500 by being one of the first two non-top-35 cars in their race, aiming for the four remaining starting positions not taken by top-35 cars (or by the two fastest non-top-35 cars).
If, however, one of the non-top-35 cars that already was guaranteed in on speed finished first or second of non-top-35 cars in their respective race, the third finishing non-top-35 driver got a spot on the 500 grid-this situation, however, isn't always present. To be safest, the non-top-35 driver that wishes to make it in really must finish ahead of all other non-top-35 cars to be guaranteed a spot in the 500 (unless of course they qualified ahead of all other non-top-35 cars previously).
There is also a reserved past champion's slot, where if there was a past series champion that attempted the race but was not in the top 35 in points they could get the final grid position, position 43, for the start of the race no matter what they qualified or finished in their duel-this was not needed/used this year, however.

For the next three races, a similar system will be used with the exception of the duels and the "racing in" part-the top 35 are arranged by speed and the 8 remaining spots are assigned to non-top-35 cars (from last year), also by speed.

After the fourth race, though, this system is applied to the current top-35 in points-thus theoretically allowing for varying "guaranteed fields" every week.

Hope that was understandable, it is quite complicated.

[Magical Trevor]

Aww Boots, I spent 45 minutes typing that up trying to be first to his question and you go and give him that

[Magical Trevor]

Bah, I made a mistake.

This is what the second half of that big middle section should say:

Those who did not finish in the top 35 in points last year and qualified as the ninth or worse non-top-35 car had to "race their way" into the 500 by being one of the first two non-top-35 cars in their race (that qualified 9th or worse of the non-top-35 cars), aiming for the four remaining starting positions not taken by top-35 cars (or by the eight fastest non-top-35 cars).
If, however, the first of the non-top-35 cars that was not guaranteed in on speed finished first or second of non-top-35 cars in their respective race, the third finishing non-top-35 driver got a spot on the 500 grid-this situation, however, isn't always present. To be safest, the non-top-35 driver that wishes to make it in really must finish ahead of all other non-top-35 cars to be guaranteed a spot in the 500 (unless of course they qualified ahead of all other non-top-35 cars previously).

[Dutton]

Thanks for the explanation with regards the Duel stuff, that is appreciated.

With respect to the normal (I use the word advisedly) qualifying set-up, it seems I was semi-sorted on that count. I understood the essentials, but needed the explanations of the specifics. I have read the explanations a couple of times, I am going to mull it over as I walk around Calgary: when I get home I will read them again and ponder a bit more, then shall respond with how I have taken it to be.

Well, I THINK that I broadly get it, but it is not exactly the most straight-forward of things, so we shall see. I'll get there, :-).

Does anyone else think that the Race for The Championship (or whatever it is termed, I mean the 10-race-10-driver-shoot-out thing) is rather silly? It just runs against what, to me, should decide who is champion.

[Magical Trevor]

Sorry, noticed another mistake (which may be fouling you up); please omit this setence:
"For each duel, the fastest non-top-35 car in qualifying had a better chance of staying in on speed-they didn't need to be one of the first two cars to race into the 500, as will be explained:"

[Magical Trevor]

As for "The Chase", although it's practically been in place for a year and a half I still don't have my mind made up on it-it's really more of a long-term process I think...

[Jack Man]

Welcome to Canada Dutton. Lots of great Nascar fans here. I've givin up on tryin to figure out where Nascar comes up with all these change. Some seem rational and some seem right off the wall ( the chase for example) . As long as the green flag drops each week i'm happy. Hope you enjoy your new home and the Nascar and other racing on this side of the pond. I'm sure you will. Cheers. Dave

[BootsOntheSide]

Seems like I've described a complicated but logical, rational and fair system, which is therefore quite different from the real system....

I'm not keen on the Chase for the Championship system. If you actually apply yhe old system to last year's results, the final points would be closer and more drivers would've gone into the final race with a chance of the title, and besides anything else it's crazy to put a higher importance on the last 10 races, especially as the selection of those 10 races is essentially random.