Michelin Teams: "Build a Chicane or We Don't Race"

[StickShift]

(moderators feel free to merge at your discretion, but I thought this news has some significance.)

Adam Cooper has the scoop:

SPEEDTV EXCLUSIVE: Build a Chicane or We Don't Race, Say Michelin Teams!

Quite interesting. Especially since it appears that it has Ecclestone's support. Not that I'm one to toot my own horn, but I said this morning...

Originally Posted by StickShift

Frankly, I doubt that we will see any cars withdraw from the race. Formula 1 would install a tyre chicane in the short chute before they allow Michelin to withdraw and compromise a Grand Prix.

[JeremySmith]

Well this does a lot to promote Formula1 in the USA don't you think?

[Mosport67]

I just read the article. I wonder what tomorrow will bring.

It is impossible to imagine the Michelin teams not running in front of 100,000 plus fans who are here (most of whom have no knowledge of any of this).

Another mickey mouse section is just what this track needs.

[StickShift]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Well this does a lot to promote Formula1 in the USA don't you think?

That's the initial reaction, but what else is F1 supposed to do? In my opinion, it is the only fair solution to a very tricky situation.

If you alter the track, and install a tyre chicane, you will probably annoy the diehard motor-racing fans. The casual fan won't care or even notice. And let's be honest, it's a chicane on the Indy GP circuit, you are hardly ruining a fantastic corner or circuit.

If you do not put in a tyre chicane, you're left with only six cars, and the likelihood that the Grand Prix will be cancelled altogether. The result would be a ferocious wave of bad press and negative opinion from the American media. Not to mention the lawsuits that IMS and Formula 1 could face.

On the other hand, if the FIA were to allow Michelin to run their new set of tyres. The Michelin teams would be racing under controversy and likely under protest. The race result would probably be decided several weeks later in an FIA court.

I think that the clear choice for Formula 1 is to install a tyre chicane, allow the teams to run a couple yellow flag laps through the new corner before the race, and then let them go at it. It's the fairest solution competition wise, the wisest solution safety wise, and the least offensive solution to the fans. (Despite what some of us diehard fans might think about chicanes.)

[Louis B.]

If they were to add this chicane, will the teams be entitled to change their set ups? Do they at least know the cause of the Toyota failures before taking such a strange decision?

[Schummy]

If they put a chicane overnight this will be one of the cheapest thing in F1 in decades. After all, the chicanes in 94 were built before the weekend started. My memory is probably fading but I don't remember MANY things like this in 70s or 80s.

If Michelin's teams don't pay this tyre malfunction it will be a farse. If McLaren or Renault win the "chicane" race it will be laughable.

Going the route of pleasing aficionados or sponsor frontally against the sporting side surely is not the right thing to gain credibility.

If there is a safety concerns, what FIA can do is to allow teams not start the race if they don't want to do, without any penalty. But, let the people who did a good work get the points.

I agree this is a no-win situation, but let's get out of it without putting in doubt the credibility of the final classification of this Championship.

[Louis B.]

I am astonished too by that possibility but I kind of recall the Monza (or Imola) race in 1996 when columns of tyres were put on the morning of the race (i.e. before the early Sunday practice session they had at the time) in order to stop drivers going straight in the chicane. Damon Hill was leading the race when he hit one of those damaging his car and ending his race. All this to say that the last minute addition of a chicane may also be dangerous.

[racer69]

Bridgestone aren't having problems
Indy hasn't caused problems like this in previous years.

Michelin is the problem, why don't they just whip up some better tyres overnight

[Heeltoe6]

"it is the only fair solution to a very tricky situation."

i don't see how it is fair at all, bridgestone has managed to build a safe tire, now you're giving michelin shod teams a get out of jail free card

only 1 "fair" solution. run the race the way it normally would be per the sporting regulations. michelin and the teams are responsible for safety. if they're not confident, they can either park their cars, go very conservative on setup, or bypass t13 during the race (like they did in practice), or take turn 13 very slowly, which would be dangerous to other runners and probably result in a black flag for not maintaining minimum speed. anyways obviously leave michelin no real chance of competing, but it's not the fia's job to give a team's a chance to contend. bridgestone, did their job, and with the season they've had to this point, i think it's very farcical (but not surprising given how the whole tire deal went down in the first place) that any sort of accommodation or change is made to the sporting regulations to shoehorn michelin out of this situation which is entirely their own fault.

then again, no one ever said f1 was fair.

[Dixie Flatline]

Come what may, the Americans won't be impressed by this. I've read elsewhere that Formula One is again losing its appeal in the USA, and this will only hasten its demise. It makes the teams, administrators and manufacturers look stupid.

[Refutation]

I think it's a lot of panic,Both failures happened on Toyota cars,who appeared to have been running an agreesive set up from the get go,bottoming out more then other cars going into turn 13.No other problems seemed to arrise with other teams concerning tires.

[Gt_R]

Why? Simply because a tyre manufacturer made an error without knowing what is wrong, and a team blew two of their tyres running setups which probably compounded the problem?

I disagree that FIA should make any changes to please or satisfy teams who threaten to withdraw or insist change in layout. The star appeal of Indy F1 circuit is the curve and the super long straight (plus history and name). To ruin the only nice bit of the circuit and turn it into Hungary GP isn't wise.

And yes, it may solve the problem for the race tomorrow, and provide a saving grace for michelin... but in the long run, FIA's & F1's credibility would be hurt.

I don't remember Sauber making too big a fuss when they pulled their cars out of Brazil a few years back due to bad rear wings IIRC.

If the team deemed it too dangerous to continue after all efforts to reduce the risk, pull out and withdraw like they say they would. In the events that team ignore the risk and insist on running to escape any penalty, then use the black flag. Warn teams in advance that should teams know that the tyres are unsafe yet insist to race them, and if it causes an accident/failure, a hefty fine/punishment would be enforced.

FIA should allow a change of tyres, but that would only come with being made to start from the back and (if a different batch of tyres are used), a small time penalty to the race result.

If teams and Michelin think they should get away with no penalty... i think they're pushing their (ill) luck too far.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by racer69

Bridgestone aren't having problems
Indy hasn't caused problems like this in previous years.

Michelin is the problem, why don't they just whip up some better tyres overnight

Grandprix.com reports that Michelin are making new tyres, which will arrive Sunday morning...

[Don K]

Originally Posted by StickShift

On the other hand, if the FIA were to allow Michelin to run their new set of tyres. The Michelin teams would be racing under controversy and likely under protest. The race result would probably be decided several weeks later in an FIA court.

Not really.


It is perfectly possible to allow Michelin to bring new tyres into the race. (I quoted that rule yesterday in another thread. Something in the first pages of this year's rule book, I think it was something about scrutineering later on in certain circumstances).


And there are several ways within the rules to allow (or force) the teams to change their tyres. It can be done with penalties, and without penalties (depending on which rule they want to use for this).

[Don K]

Originally Posted by Louis B.

I am astonished too by that possibility but I kind of recall the Monza (or Imola) race in 1996 when columns of tyres were put on the morning of the race (i.e. before the early Sunday practice session they had at the time) in order to stop drivers going straight in the chicane.

That is something else.

Those tyres where put in a place where the drivers weren't supposed to be.
It was impossible to hit those tyres without having made an earlier mistake.
It only prevented drivers from getting profit from their "mistake".

[Raglanparade]

Whats to stop the michelin runners being allowed to change their tyres to the new spec at the end of Lap 1?

[ascarmarshal]

If they change the circuit, won't all the cars have to have another practice as the conditions/circuit would have changed. Also not a single car will have qualified on the new layout possibly making the race null and void as the cars have to qualify on the circuit that they will be using to race on

[Don K]

Originally Posted by jasonhill9884

Whats to stop the michelin runners being allowed to change their tyres to the new spec at the end of Lap 1?

Rule 74.a prevents the drivers from changing to a different specification of tyre during the race:
"... Before 08.00 (or 07.00 during Events taking place in North America) on the second day of practice each driver must nominate which specification of tyre he will use for the remainder of the Event. ..."

Rule 75.b prevents Michelin from bringing another specification of tyres:
"Other than in cases of force majeure (accepted as such by the stewards of the meeting), all tyres intended for use at an Event must be presented to the FIA technical delegate for allocation prior to the end of initial scrutineering."

---------

Both rules can easily be overruled.
For instance: Rule 75.b can be overruled as soon as the stewards of the meeting say it is force majeure, as mentioned in the first words of that rule.

[Raglanparade]

I think it should be up to the teams and drivers whether to race or not.

Formula 1 is about danger... if u cant handle it, then pack up and go home.

[alfasud]

Would we really be talking about building a chicane if it were Bridgestone tyres that were the problem?

Or in order to be fair to Bridgestone.... later in the season, can Bridgestone decide what track the would like to add an extra chicane?

[GTRMagic]

Danger to me shouldnt include whether my tyre will pop without warning and flick me into the fence

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by alfasud

Would we really be talking about building a chicane if it were Bridgestone tyres that were the problem?

Or in order to be fair to Bridgestone.... later in the season, can Bridgestone decide what track the would like to add an extra chicane?

But Bridgestone have 4 (sometimes 6 depending on the track) chicanes at their disposal.

And they are all mobile....

[BootsOntheSide]

Toyota have ran the most aggressive strategies on set-up this weekend, they've had the problems, no one else, and now it's a Michelin problem? Inserting a chicane would be a farce, and would be unfair on Bridgestone who built a working tyre within the regulations. If a chicane is inserted a one-minute penalty should surely be applied to the Michelin drivers' race times - effectively they would be circumnavigating that. Really there is now no easy solution - the race has to go ahead, as it would be such a PR disaster if it didn't - but a serious crash due to another Michelin tyre failure would obviously be catastrophic.

[touringlegend]

Why not, for this one time, does the FIA not allow all teams (bridgestone included) at least 1 tyre change during the race, or do tyre makers not ship out any excess tyres ?

[SeaneyC]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Danger to me shouldnt include whether my tyre will pop without warning and flick me into the fence

Set up the car so it's not as aggressive on the tyre then? If in the position as a racing driver you see what happens when you do set it up in a certain way, you'd be foolhardy to do it again, and the fault would lie squarely with you and not the tyre?