Wet driving

[BillyT]

Following on from racing yesterday in some serious rain, I was thinking about the technics that you use when driving in the wet. I tried to copy the others but it really didn't work as I was 8 seconds off the pace .

What do you do in the wet, obviously I'm not going to be giving any tips

[#15 tkm 4/]

first thing to do is learn something called the italian racing line.....

it is only used in the wet weather and is extremly usful.

Baically stay of the usual racing line as this will be very slippery whlst wet. This is because during a normal race meeting all the rubber is laided down on the track and when it starts to rain, the rubber becomes EXTREMLY slippery and is prone to make you oversteer of the track. Where with the 'italian' racong line you go round the outside of the corners (or the non-racing line) as there is likley to be less rubber on that part of the track wich make you spin.

Hope this made sense, if it didnt someone else will clarify it for you

Sam

[speedy king]

Basically as Sam said.

I love racing in the wet, prefer it to the dry. I don't know why but i can be blisteringly quick in the wet wheras in the dry i can never normally pull out a huge lead in a competetive race.

My first wet race back in 2003 i got fastest lap and almost won, which would have been my first win, racing with Dean Hill who at the time was in Champions Of the Future so quite a good guy to learn against! Unfortunately i rode the curb too much and span it, aloowing MikeyG through. Anyway, i found on that day that trail braking seemed to give me a big advantage. While the others were braking in a straight line i was braking up until the apex and controlling the throttle out again and turning in much earlier than normal. Many people say this is not the way to drive in the wet but it worked very well for me.

As Sam said though, the biggest thing to remember int he wet is to just keep off the rubber, and the puddles too, even in a straight line they will slow you down so much.

[speedy king]

Billy, i recommend next time its rainign to go to your local outdoor circuit and hop in one of their pro-karts with slicks on and go out in the rain. Teaches you a surprising amount. A 10 minute session like that will probably teach you more than 3 or 4 wet races with wets on

[BillyT]

When we race, we race with slicks on so its even harder lol.

[Boro]

racing in the rain isn't as physical as it is in the dry, so you could afford to use body english to help the kart grip.

if you run ballast, move it further up in the seat to maximize weight transfer.

lean on the outside during turns.

that's about allthat i know in addition to the italian line

[Flatspot]

Wet and slicks, what did you do with your set up? We ran into this situation a couple of weeks back. Where we are normally running tire pressures in the 9-12 psi range we pumped them up to around 28 psi. Your contact patch is smaller but it helps to squeegee the water away from the contact patch you do have. We also widened the front end as far as possible, maximized our caster and threw on short rear hubs to soften the rear and kept the rear as narrow as possible. This all makes it physically harder to turn in but the kart turns in. A couple of others did the same. Most didn't.

For those that changed their set-up adequately for rain it came down to the drivers skills and the racing stayed tight (and yes, staying off line is a key). For those who didn't....eight seconds off pace seems about right.

[BillyT]

We don't change the set up or anything, so basically its the same karts used in the dry as in the wet. It was a good day though after the first wet race, friendly atmosphere and a good result in the end.

[Flatspot]

Just curious, are you restricted from changing your set up? You have to at least be able to run higher tire pressures, yes?

[marcus]

yeah we used to race with slicks , but then the treads came in and it was amzing how much of a difference it made , in fact it was quite hard to get used to because your thinking of how it is on slicks.

I didnt race tha much in the wet and it was great fun but i was never really successfull at it.

hence the proof.

http://www.geocities.com/racing_au/us.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/racing_au/spin3.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/racing_au/sideways.jpg

[speedy king]

In regards to what Marcus said aboutt he difference between using slicks and wets, its huge even if the rain isnt too bad. There was a moment last yera when it started to rain on the grid and i was only 1 of 3 drivers to change to wets at the very last minute on the grid, while others who decided to join us a few seconds before the green flag were told they couldnt. Us 3 were lapping in the 36second barrier (Dry race pace in late 35, early 36) while people on slicks were doing 42's. However with wets it felt like and was lapping like it was dry with slicks. Makes a huge difference. But Billy if in the future you use wets you really will be amazed at what slicks int he wet have tought you!

[speedy king]

Originally Posted by marcus

http://www.geocities.com/racing_au/sideways.jpg

Now thats fun

[Alex Hodgkinson]

Originally Posted by speedy king

In regards to what Marcus said aboutt he difference between using slicks and wets, its huge even if the rain isnt too bad. There was a moment last yera when it started to rain on the grid and i was only 1 of 3 drivers to change to wets at the very last minute on the grid, while others who decided to join us a few seconds before the green flag were told they couldnt. Us 3 were lapping in the 36second barrier (Dry race pace in late 35, early 36) while people on slicks were doing 42's. However with wets it felt like and was lapping like it was dry with slicks. Makes a huge difference. But Billy if in the future you use wets you really will be amazed at what slicks int he wet have tought you!

Of corse that kind of thing is very dependant on what controlled wets/slicks you have to use. Max has been set up as a class with wet and slick tyres that equally stand greasy conditions. Try doing the same thing in Libre and you'll never get away with it, because the slick'll never grip when you want them to and the wets will shread.

[#15 tkm 4/]

billy do you race in club100?

If so, that means you cant do anything, you just turn up and race, with no differnt cet-up, sprocket or tyres right?

If this is right then my adivce is glid around the corners on your slicks and dont put your foot down till you a fully exited or you feel the grip, also stick to the line a mentioned before

[BillyT]

Originally Posted by #15 tkm 4/

billy do you race in club100?

If so, that means you cant do anything, you just turn up and race, with no differnt cet-up, sprocket or tyres right?

If this is right then my adivce is glid around the corners on your slicks and dont put your foot down till you a fully exited or you feel the grip, also stick to the line a mentioned before

Yeah club100.

It was pretty strange snaking up the straight

Thanks for the tips lads, I will use the techniques if I races in the wet again, being Britain it won't be long

[trevisio]

I was racing with club100 at the weekend too.

I used the "Italian Line" it in my 1st heat (it dried up after that) & set a lap over 2 seconds faster than the guy who won that heat (he also won the A final later). Unfortunately I'd already spun off on the 1st lap!

I find the toughest thing to master in the wet, on slicks, is braking. It's so easy to lock up & spin off, especially if there's an incident ahead and you instictively squeeze the brakes a bit harder to avoid the accident.

I've tried to explain what I understand to be the Italian line below:

Drive way past the normal turn in point and eventually you'll see that the very edge of the circuit is drier, thats where you want you're left front tyre to be when turning into a right turn. Vice versa for left turns. This way you do all the turning much quicker than drivers around you on less grippy racing lines, and get straightened up earlier, so get the power down earlier, so you can easily pass them on the exit as they slide around on the wrong line.

The only pitfall with this line during a race stuation is that it is a longer route around.
Therefore into a corner a driver following someone on the Italian line may choose to enter the corner on the inside and as this is a shorter distance, they may be able to gain the position if they can block the exit of the driver on the italian line, usually by appearing sideways just in front of them as they try and put the power down.

[luke]

I've seen many drivers take the dead outside so far out, so they get a good drive out of the corner where there usually seems to be more grip.

[Maxkarter]

I just love the wet, i'm always much faster... pity it doesn't rain that much over here

[BillyT]

Originally Posted by trevisio

I was racing with club100 at the weekend too.



I've tried to explain what I understand to be the Italian line below:

Cheers Trevor, I tried to copy yours and Rob Hart's technique as I was out in the second heat. Good result for you, good clean meeting don't you think?, maybe a bit strong on penalties though.

[Alex Hodgkinson]

Use all the track you can to minimise turning angles. Don't be afraid to ride kerbs, - but only if you can unload the wheels you're putting on the kerbs. The "italian line" is good for some corners, but don't use it as a rule of thumb, and of corse if you're using that line you're leaving your door wide open every turn..

[Karting_jenny]

i don't have a technique.....i just aim to stay on track and keep the kart from spinning.

Not a huge fan of the rain....

[Rushy]

I like the rain and i won in my last honda cadet race (which was wet) and this year it hasnt rained once in minimax except for practise i done ok though

[trevisio]

Originally Posted by BillyT

Cheers Trevor, I tried to copy yours and Rob Hart's technique as I was out in the second heat. Good result for you, good clean meeting don't you think?, maybe a bit strong on penalties though.

Don't copy Rob he was slow

3rd was ok. Penalties were strong but that's 'cos the kerbs at Whilton (I understand) do a lot of damage to chassis if hit in the wrong way.

You were going well at Buckmore - Steve even "bigged you up" in the race report! Nice one

[Welsh Karter]

Its not good for the kart in the long term - but when i did club 100 with the BUKC brake-riding seemed to make me quicker - by that i mean double pedalling - can burn clutch/brakes so not advisable for enduros but in sprints i find it works

[BillyT]

Originally Posted by trevisio

You were going well at Buckmore - Steve even "bigged you up" in the race report! Nice one

Cheers, hopefully break into the A-Final soon, didnt really expect to be doing this well as my only experience before this was Playscape's junior indoors champs.