RINGALL needs urgent Parity Adjustment

[mmciau]

Russell is in conservative mode - driving around, keeping out of trouble and wishing that SBR knew how to select decent brake packages!

So to get him up the front end, does his car need to be parity adjusted to get him off the bridesmaid line?

Seriously, SBR were really found wanting in the brake package department at SP.

Mike

[xrystl]

Ross Stone mentioned during an interview that the brake package on the shorter tracks is wanting (perhaps 888 wheels would help) by overheating the front assemblies , the brake packages haven't really improved much but the speeds have gone up considerably .

[Aarrgh8]

Originally Posted by mmciau

Seriously, SBR were really found wanting in the brake package department at SP.Mike

So were some other teams, like HRT and FPR . Just a hard track on brakes.

[Driver]

But didn't Ross Stone say that there was a problem with Ambrose's brakes in race 2 and now that it was fixed there would be no problem at the beginning of race 3?

There seemed to be no problem in race 3. 25th to 6th would of been pretty hard on the brakes. The only easy thing to fix I could think of is maybe a brake duct got blocked or dislodged?

[MRJUCY]

It seemed that they finally had it sorted in Marcos's car at least in race 3 it looked a lot better under brakes the Todd Kelly's car under brakes towards the end of the race.

[peckstar]

yes i think ingall needs a parity adjustment. i have never seen him so stressed as what he was in an interview yesterday (or maybe it was sat). the pressure is on, no laughs , no jokes.

[Rombles1]

Originally Posted by peckstar

yes i think ingall needs a parity adjustment. i have never seen him so stressed as what he was in an interview yesterday (or maybe it was sat). the pressure is on, no laughs , no jokes.

Sounds like he needs a PARTY adjustment, rather than PARITY....

[STEVO]

I like Russell Ingall as well, but does he SERIOUSLY deserve it this year?

One LUCKY round win at Oran Park because Marcos and Craig were screwed out of a victory due to a radar gun. That's his main highlight.

I'm not bagging the guy, but Ingall deserved to win it more in 1998 when he fought like a dog at Hidden Valley in the Castrol VT against HRT. Yes that year he deserved to win.

2005 though? I mean let's be serious here. It's a hollow victory.

Just because he's been a runner-up so many times before, doesn't really mean he thoroughly deserves to win this year.

If and when he wins and wears the #1 plate next year, do you seriously think that he'll be the odds on favourite to back it up again? Highly unlikely.

Ambrose has had bad luck and self destructed and Lowndes had a sluggish start to the season which allowed Ingall to cruise and collect points. NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT...but hardly the type of Champion and championship winning style that Mark Skaife displayed in 2002 or Ambrose in '03 and '04.

Heck, despite Glenn Seton's only two round victories in 1997, he did manage to win 10 out of 30 races that year and scored 2 poles.

What has Ingall done this year?

Bit of an anti-climax this season has turned out to be. Personally I hope Marcos wins, but Lowndes seems to deserve it too.

The Enforcer? More like the fortunate cruiser. Sorry guys. Not an Ingall bash.

[STEVO]

Just ask yourself, if you were running sports TAB, who would get the short odds to win the series in 2006?

Lowndes is definitely short odds.

Now hang on? As far as I can remember, everytime the bloke who wraps up the series at the end of the year, he enters the following season as the favourite hence the #1 on his door.

I remember dreading the '03 season because I thought Skaife had title number 6 in the bag, how could you not think that? The guy was mowing 'em down all year.

Can you honestly feel confident that Ingall is looking good for title number 2 in 2006?

It just doesn't feel like the right champion this year when the forums and articles are inundated with overwhelming Lowndes support for '06 and how he will win the title.

Shouldn't we be reading about Ingall's brilliant prospects in 06? After all, he'll be champion this year?

Personally I'd love to see Ambrose stay and duke it out with Craig next year. Ingall's there for a back up and he has done the same this year when Lowndes and Ambrose have faltered, so good on him and thank god a Holden wont win again! Brilliant stuff of course, but still. Ingall should buy himself a lottery ticket.

I'll be happy for Ross Stone because there's a man who deserves it! But Rusty?

[mac]

Originally Posted by STEVO

I like Russell Ingall as well, but does he SERIOUSLY deserve it this year? ....................

..................... The Enforcer? More like the fortunate cruiser. Sorry guys. Not an Ingall bash.

I totally agree.

What a shame to see Russell so conservative .......

Parity is not the problem ....... the stupid points system is!!!!

CHANGE IT NOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWW!

[STEVO]

Not trying to put Ingall down or anything like that folks. He's been consistent and relatively clean. He's played the game the way it is and he's come up a winner.

But you know...makes you really think about our points structure...

[Grimace]

Ingall is a plodder! he is a good backup to Ambrose and
ultimately for Courteney next year but he is a league below the front running gang.


That mob at 888 are smart cookies Campbell Little & co quietly introducing

those new wheels with improved cooling YET SBR/HRT didnt follow and

suffered horrendously at SP,


Are HSV running much the same brake package as HRT?

Funny how SBR has brake troubles and 888 doesnt?
and how HRT has brake troubles and HSV doesnt?

WHATS GOING ON-was its HRTs est brake pads that played up?
and why did SBRs brake package fail?



GTR please explain?if you have inside info!

[Henry]

If Ingall is a plodder, why couldn't the chargers knock him off? They could've done exactly what he's done this year (and he hasn't had the best of luck at times either...Hidden Valley or SHanghai spring to mind) and the likes of AMbrose and Lowndes have certainly had pace over Russell much of the time.... but Russell leads by nearly 50 points as they approach the final round.... other people have rightly said it'd be a different championship if Ambrose hadn't been playing silly buggers at Barbagallo, or if Bathurst had been a 100km race instead of 1000... but you play the hand you're dealt, and the Artist formerly known as the Enforcer has done it well enough.

[sizzle]

Originally Posted by Henry

If Ingall is a plodder, why couldn't the chargers knock him off? They could've done exactly what he's done this year (and he hasn't had the best of luck at times either...Hidden Valley or SHanghai spring to mind) and the likes of AMbrose and Lowndes have certainly had pace over Russell much of the time.... but Russell leads by nearly 50 points as they approach the final round.... other people have rightly said it'd be a different championship if Ambrose hadn't been playing silly buggers at Barbagallo, or if Bathurst had been a 100km race instead of 1000... but you play the hand you're dealt, and the Artist formerly known as the Enforcer has done it well enough.

Henry you have hit the nail on the head. For the last how many years all the armchair experts take the cheap shots because he went for the hole that closed and suffered the penalty. This year he does what they all said he should do and the cheap shots still keep coming. To say he has had less bad luck than any else is complete crap. He has made the most of what he has had. Good luck to him.

[Mattracer]

Originally Posted by STEVO

I like Russell Ingall as well, but does he SERIOUSLY deserve it this year?

One LUCKY round win at Oran Park because Marcos and Craig were screwed out of a victory due to a radar gun. That's his main highlight.

I'm not bagging the guy, but Ingall deserved to win it more in 1998 when he fought like a dog at Hidden Valley in the Castrol VT against HRT. Yes that year he deserved to win.

2005 though? I mean let's be serious here. It's a hollow victory.

Just because he's been a runner-up so many times before, doesn't really mean he thoroughly deserves to win this year.

If and when he wins and wears the #1 plate next year, do you seriously think that he'll be the odds on favourite to back it up again? Highly unlikely.

Ambrose has had bad luck and self destructed and Lowndes had a sluggish start to the season which allowed Ingall to cruise and collect points. NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT...but hardly the type of Champion and championship winning style that Mark Skaife displayed in 2002 or Ambrose in '03 and '04.

Heck, despite Glenn Seton's only two round victories in 1997, he did manage to win 10 out of 30 races that year and scored 2 poles.

What has Ingall done this year?

Bit of an anti-climax this season has turned out to be. Personally I hope Marcos wins, but Lowndes seems to deserve it too.

The Enforcer? More like the fortunate cruiser. Sorry guys. Not an Ingall bash.

Drivers don't deserve it, they earn it. The points are the points, Ingall has scored more than anyone else to this stage. Means to an end.

If he wins it.

It's not over yet and Lowndes and Ambrose could still do it.
Many are talking as if it is over but the drivers particularly those three are not thinking that way.

I take exception, wih all due respect, to the comment about Oran Park being lucky. Not entirely true- when it counted Ingall had a car speed advantage over Ambrose and passed him for position on the circuit (you will remember too that Ambrose did not roll over for the pass, there was some minor contact).

[Mattracer]

Originally Posted by sizzle

Henry you have hit the nail on the head. For the last how many years all the armchair experts take the cheap shots because he went for the hole that closed and suffered the penalty. This year he does what they all said he should do and the cheap shots still keep coming. To say he has had less bad luck than any else is complete crap. He has made the most of what he has had. Good luck to him.

I could not agree more!

If anything it shows that a driver can change his style of driving and still produce meaningful and worthwhile results.

It is said that the "Enforcer" is no more or is a "shadow" or his former self and that it is sad. If some are sad I bet there is one person who is happy. Being a champion is as much about brains as it is "braves".

[Grimace]

Re A CHEAP SHOT read on>>>>>Ingall has had the best Falcon for a couple of years but continually gets outpaced (cept OP)by his sometimes impetuous teammate-

Now a similar car(maybe better prepared by Campbell Little and co) in 888 arrives in 05 and with the construction design skills of Ludo Lacroix and the massive international background of Team 888 in touring car racing have made a great car with their new generation Falcons built late last year to replace the briggsmobiles.

AND....They now they have the finest touring car driver on the payroll in Craig Lowndes and (with all dues to SBR who build the best Falcon engines) a commercial agreement was made between Ross Stone and Roland Dane for engine supply which in turn allows (with the sales of engines to 3 teams) a stronger engine development program.

Look how 888 introduced a heat dissapating wheel design a few rounds back and yet SBR/HRT didnt follow immediatley and went slithering and sliding with brake problems the last 2 rounds on brake heat problem circuits-how long before they use a better wheel that has proven itself with Lowndes hammering them particularly at Indy and SP and no brake problems for 888,

why dont the other well funded teams react quickly and take advantage of an item 888 discovered ?- i am staggered they have not reacted, they wont need them at PI but most certainly have helped at Indy and SI !!!!!!!!!!


So back to Ingall- he has "his back to the wall" against Craig Lowndes onslaught at Phillip Island in fact this will be the most pressure Ingall has ever had to endure in his touring car career without a doubt

I am biased i am a mad Lowndes fan and hope he wins for Ford because he is a true champion (and not a deserved winner as Ingall fans say of Russell ).

Maybe plodder is harsh- he is a >>>tryer-a real tryer but not in the league of others like Skaife, Lowndes, Ambrose and soon to be Courtney(who might even surpass Lowndes and Skaife over his long V8 supercar driving life)

This is NOT a cheap shot as you guys put it -IT IS COMMON LOGIC and the betting odds will give you your answer after you absorb the content of my reply to sizle and Henry-
anyhow a Falcon looks like winning unless a disaster happens-if Russell wins i will be very happy for him and life will be more complete-but hard reality is another thing again - may the best man win !!!....49 points

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Grimace

Are HSV running much the same brake package as HRT?

From memory... HSVDT runs almost exclusively AP Racing calipers and disc rotors, while HRT run almost exclusively with Alcon, as do PWR (the Oz distributor as it happens).

An SBR car seem to have lots of options... AP & Brembo bits about the place... but the difference for me is the sheer amount of brake dust on an SBR car compared to anything else in the field at the conclusion of a race. I dont think its just the different colour of the wheels.. more a conscious decision....

I can only presume the team runs a softer pad for better feel and/or a rougher/more aggressive disc face to get better purchase on the pad surface.

Perhaps the SBR brake issue is one of wear... when driven to the maximum, with a pedal feel the drivers like, they arent quite where they should be.

There may be cooling issues as well (although I doubt that quality Caltex brake fluid would ever be so disobedient to overheat ) where there may not be the same amount of air going thru to the brakes as in other similar cars.

Would the wheel rims help this? Conceptually of course there is less metal covering the actual brake disc itself, maybe the air can be extracted better when the spokes are smaller (although they look brittle... like those Sparco rims the WRX mob use, that crack around the hub so easily...)

The rules allow for a flat disc on the wheel to draw air into the wheel... why these havent been used since Mr McLean tried them on his various Falcons I am unsure (and yes I understand they are still legal)

[Grimace]

GTR why would SBR have cooling issues when 888 do not-same car same intakes-only the wheels are different?

What rotors/brakes do SBR and 888 use most of the time??

wasnt HRT testing another pad material at PI?

[GTRMagic]

Perhaps the SBR drivers are harder on their brakes than the 888 drivers.... or indeed the damper package in the front of the SBR cars does not help braking distances....

[SRabbit]

i think also it may come down to driving style - the majority of drivers like to take the car to full tilt wait til the last minute, stomp on them and turn in sharply - Lowndes takes an earlier turn in so the car kind of understeers a little but then slides it through the corner on the brake so he doesnt have that stomp on the peddle.

as far as russell 'deserving ' it or 'earning' it - he has played the game by the rules, and i'm fairly confident that there would have been 32 copies made of them..

HOWEVER

when a points system is in place that rewards the driver that doesnt lose, something is wrong. Its backwards. It's in reverse. No profit for a win but mayhem for a mishap.
And that is what we are seeing this season.

Russel has had 3 round podiums including 1 round win
Marcos has had 6 round podiums including 1 round win
Craig has had 5 round podiums including 4 round wins

To understand why Russell is in front you have to go through the stats to see who out of the 3 of them has FAILED the most.
It's just not right.

[mac]

I am not bagging Russell at all.

I am bagging the outrageous points system. And I am bagging the system that forces Ingall to drive conservatively for the championship, rather than mix it fiercely with the guys at the front. The system that does not reward excellence anywhere near enough.

Ambrose, Lowndes and Skaife have all raced incredibly hard this year, and they have paid the price.

Again I say, fix the points system NOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWW!!!

[SRabbit]

Originally Posted by mac

I am bagging the outrageous points system. And I am bagging the system that forces Ingall to drive conservatively for the championship, rather than mix it fiercely with the guys at the front. The system that does not reward excellence anywhere near enough

and I agree 100%.

Not enough reward for winning, too much pain for a bad round.

Think of the time, effort, money, commitment, cool under pressure, everything just clicks and you do the best job on the day - 1st place - you get.....6 extra points.

Think of the time, effort, money, commitment, cool under pressure, everything just clicks EXCEPT some one turns in on you, destroys your car - you get....your season completely destroyed and made virtually unrecoverable under the current points.

[SRabbit]

ok for a giggle i managed to work over the F1 season using the current V8 points. a lot of people have said that V8's need MotoGp points or F1 points, so i flipped it and gave F1 the V8's points.

One thing to note is that the drop your worst round is useless because every driver DNF'd at least once, so here goes :

F1 as it finished :

1.Alonso 133
2.Raikkonen 112
3.Michael 62
4.Montoya 60
5.Fisi 58
6.Ralf 45
7.Trulli 43
8.Barichello38
9.Button 37
10Webber 36
11Heidfeld 28
12Coulthard 24
13Massa 11
14Villeneuve 9
15Klein 9
16Monteiro 7
17Wurz 6
18Karthikeyan5
19Albers 4
20 DeLa Rosa 4

Same Season under current V8Supercar points :
1.Alonso 3120
2.Raikkonen 2862
3.Ralf 2664
4.Barichelo 2586
5.Trulli 2298
6.Massa 2238
7.Michael 2208
8.Fisi 2178
9.Monteiro 2166
10.Coulthard 2058
11.Webber 2004
12.Villeneuve 1998
13.Button 1932
14.Montoya 1872
15.Karthikeyan1608
16.Klein 1578
17.Albers 1482
18.Heidfeld 1362
19.Sato 1242
20.Friesacher 558

[mac]

Shows exactly how ridiculous the current system is.

No one could argue that Barrichello should have been fourth, or should have finished ahead of Michael.

No one could argue that Massa deserved 6th.

A Jordan should not have finished 9th.

Shows how ridiculously compromised Klien, Button, Montoya and Heidfeld were for missing a couple of races.

It proves what a joke of a system we have.