Where's the loyalty?

Sherlock Holmes · 21 Dec 2005, 11:25 (Ref:1487970)

In the wake of Fernando Alonso's move to McClaren 2007, it begs the question, where is the loyalty in F1 nowadays?

With the whole Button saga of late, do these drivers have any respect for the business and the teams that put there faith in them week in week out? If they do, its not often its shown in loyalty.

Granted its a business that revolves around money, and everyone wants to be in the best team with the best chance of winning races... But whats Fernando's excuse? Renault have pushed so hard and there work paid off last season delivering a fantastic car and Fernando a championship (of course Fernando showed a lot of mature, fantastic driving along the way.) But how does he repay them - by not even waiting a season to decide his future lies at McClaren, who may have the best car in F1 on there day, but the loyalty shown to Renault here i find somewhat disturbing. Same goes for Button and his U-turns on signed contracts etc...

You have to do what you have to do... but sometimes a little respect wouldn't go a miss?

Halsey · 21 Dec 2005, 11:35 (Ref:1487979)

F1 is a ruthless business.

Why drive in a car that you think might not be as good another you have an option on driving in the not too distant future? On the same note, why settle for less money when you can earn more?

But I know what you mean, and feel the same way.

The STIG · 21 Dec 2005, 11:49 (Ref:1487985)

Loyalty? F1? HA!

Those 2 words never go in the same sentence, teams and drivers have been stabbing each other in the back for ages - look at Buttongate last year.

Swiss · 21 Dec 2005, 11:57 (Ref:1487991)

I don't think that Alonso signing for McLaren and Button's contract wrangle can be regarded in the same manner at all to be honest.

Alsonso signing for McLaren ... so what ?!?! He will have done 5 years for Renault in that time and won them the Drivers & Constructors championship not a bad return I say. Aren't we all driven by the desire to do better and get more in return ? Are you still working for the same company that first employed you and gave you that chance in the workplace ? Unlikely ..... There are not many professional sports now where the participants stay in one team ...

Hugh Jarce · 21 Dec 2005, 12:29 (Ref:1488009)

I wonder where the loyalty is between Alonso and Briatore - his current manager, who is now denying any involvement in the deal.

Some manager!

It all looks a bit fishy.

Is Briatore pulling out and working behind the scenes advising FA to get the best deal while he can? I mean he couldn't be seen to be negotiating against his current pay-masters.

Sherlock Holmes · 21 Dec 2005, 12:31 (Ref:1488013)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swiss

Aren't we all driven by the desire to do better and get more in return ? Are you still working for the same company that first employed you and gave you that chance in the workplace ? Unlikely ..... There are not many professional sports now where the participants stay in one team ...

I am self emploed so on't have the whole company "malarcky" you speak of however i do see your point, It just feels it was bad timing on Alonso's part - he could have waited another season to seal the deal... 5 years is a lot, and I appreciate the desire to do better, we all have it. But it would be nice, just for once.. to see that little bit of respect and loyalty to Renault in this instance. After all, Renault had put faith in him!

Alonso is making a statement here - it says "McClaren are better for him than the car that just won him the championship!" - which, if i was a renault lad, id be very diss-heartened after the work I would have put into winning him the championship. Yes thats life! But do you see my piont now?

slicktoast · 21 Dec 2005, 12:41 (Ref:1488021)

In the sports business, Loyalty is the domain of the fans.

joe rossi · 21 Dec 2005, 12:56 (Ref:1488029)

Loyalty is irrelevent, if things are done in the right way, unlike buttongate.

Renault would have no qualms about dropping an under-performing driver to make the team stronger, and rightly a driver is given the opportunity to find the strongest team he can while at the top of his game.

I see no ethical problems with Alonso signing a new contract for 2007

SALEEN S7R · 21 Dec 2005, 13:10 (Ref:1488037)

F1 is a business, pure and simple. If I were in Alonso's place id have probably have done exactly what he has done. Renault did a great job this year but it was there for all to see that once Mclaren sort out their reliabilty issues they will likely be the dominant force in F1, unless Ferrari make a comeback in 2006 which is now more likely thanks to there being more teams running on Bridgestones in 2006 than this year.

ASCII Man · 21 Dec 2005, 13:28 (Ref:1488052)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The STIG

Loyalty? F1? HA!

Those 2 words never go in the same sentence, teams and drivers have been stabbing each other in the back for ages - look at Buttongate last year.

Whow, I didn't know one year counted for the term 'ages'...
But it used to be quite different though, just think of Senna and Lotus, and McLaren 92-93.

But I don't see any problem with Alonso signing for McLaren, as he is out of contract in 2007.
Which is totally different from the Buttboy affaire.

If I was Alonso, which I'm not sadly, then I would've done exactly the same.
Going on with the same team every season over and over again is just plain boring IMO.

Kind of like being married and all.

QuickSilver · 21 Dec 2005, 13:48 (Ref:1488069)

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe rossi

I see no ethical problems with Alonso signing a new contract for 2007

True Joe, ethically Alonso did nothing wrong. The problem in my de-caffeinated and therefore somewhat limited mind is when Alonso comes up behind Kimi or JPM this year, the McLaren is going to look pretty wide. It will be subtle, perhaps even imperceptible to us, perhaps even subconscious for him, but will be there.

Blasting by a BAR or a Ferrari, no problem - but screwing with next year's paycheque, that's another story.
-

**Bononi** · 21 Dec 2005, 14:05 (Ref:1488080)

Loyalty in business is something that you have with your bank account. All other things come after this...

The STIG · 21 Dec 2005, 14:22 (Ref:1488089)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASCII Man

Whow, I didn't know one year counted for the term 'ages'...

well that was just an example - what about Nigel Mansell, Damon hill and Williams?

QuickSilver · 21 Dec 2005, 14:24 (Ref:1488094)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

Loyalty in business is something that you have with your bank account. All other things come after this...

Hey Bon, did you eat out last night because that sounds like a fortune cookie?

-

Nado · 21 Dec 2005, 14:36 (Ref:1488098)

As much as I respect loyalty, the way F1 is I don't blame Alonso. If he is completely devoured by Fisichella (as unlikely as it is) his stocks would freefall. Alonso is securing his future in Formula1.

Swiss · 21 Dec 2005, 14:43 (Ref:1488100)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherlock Holmes

I am self emploed so on't have the whole company "malarcky" you speak of however i do see your point, It just feels it was bad timing on Alonso's part - he could have waited another season to seal the deal... 5 years is a lot, and I appreciate the desire to do better, we all have it. But it would be nice, just for once.. to see that little bit of respect and loyalty to Renault in this instance. After all, Renault had put faith in him!

Alonso is making a statement here - it says "McClaren are better for him than the car that just won him the championship!" - which, if i was a renault lad, id be very diss-heartened after the work I would have put into winning him the championship. Yes thats life! But do you see my piont now?

I do see your point about timing and can empathise with that for sure however the problem is Alonso is the hot property of F1 at the moment and wanted by everyone and if a deal hadn't of been done now it would have been done sooner rather than later. So on one hand whilst not perfect it does mean the team knows what is happening and can focus on the season ahead rather than having to deal with speculation and uncertainty in the midst of a campaign.

Secondly the McLaren was recognised as the car of the field throughout most of last season, a moot point I know as they didn't pick up any awards but it could have been very different but for a few incidents, the nature of the sport I know but am just playing devil's advocate on this one...

Gore · 21 Dec 2005, 14:44 (Ref:1488101)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASCII Man

But it used to be quite different though, just think of Senna and Lotus, and McLaren 92-93.

But, equally, think of Senna and Toleman in 1984...

maltafan · 21 Dec 2005, 14:45 (Ref:1488102)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherlock Holmes

Alonso is making a statement here - it says "McClaren are better for him than the car that just won him the championship!" - which, if i was a renault lad, id be very diss-heartened after the work I would have put into winning him the championship. ?

I agree with you that Alonso should have not said so, above all, they have just helped him to become World Champion, and there is nothing better than that.

However, I do not think that this is a question of loyalty. More drivers have signed a contract a year in advance, with Montoya being a case in point and I think that there is nothing wrong with that. Everyone tries to do his best for his career. If this was unfair, he must have stayed at Minardi so as to remain loyal to them, and Schumi must have stayed at Jordan.

What I call unloyalty is Button saga, cause if he had a contract with BAR he should not have signed a contract with Williams for the same year and if he had a contract with Williams for 2006, he should have not begged SFW to release him from it. to stay at BAR.

Boro · 21 Dec 2005, 15:07 (Ref:1488109)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherlock Holmes

In the wake of Fernando Alonso's move to McClaren 2007, it begs the question, where is the loyalty in F1 nowadays?

With the whole Button saga of late, do these drivers have any respect for the business and the teams that put there faith in them week in week out? If they do, its not often its shown in loyalty.

Granted its a business that revolves around money, and everyone wants to be in the best team with the best chance of winning races... But whats Fernando's excuse?

Same excuse that Frank used for his dismissal of Damon, MS's departure to Ferrari and Valentino's move to Yamaha.

It ain't personal, it's just business.

chillibowl · 21 Dec 2005, 15:21 (Ref:1488124)

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuickSilver

...when Alonso comes up behind Kimi or JPM this year, the McLaren is going to look pretty wide. It will be subtle, perhaps even imperceptible to us, perhaps even subconscious for him, but will be there.

thats what people said would happen when JPM signed with Mclaren during 2004 but when push came to shove we saw JPM take the fight to KR as they both exited the pits at Brazil. the risk of JPM hurting his '05 season with an angry teammate came second to him delivering a win for himself and his team. i cant see Alonso giving either one any quarter in '06.

as for loyalty - an athletes career is short enough. they have to go where the best deal for them is. at times this may anger me or change my opinion of someone but ultimatly this is just a part of all sports.

an athlete has 2 choices, 1. to go where they think they have the best chance of winning or 2. where the money is. personally im happy that Alonso chose option 1 as he surely could have got the money elsewhere.

Sherlock Holmes · 21 Dec 2005, 15:37 (Ref:1488131)

ok ok.... now the reason i started this thread is because of the Buttongate saga, because of the money chasers in the sport, because of Ecclestones selfish mind, because of Ferrari's greed (which obviously backfired last season) because of Alonso leaving a team that made himthe youngest world champion in F1 history (dont't get me wrong, I'm a McClaren Fan myself and am looking forward to seeing Fernando don the black red &silver - though if Kimi wasn't being pushed out and left under the same circumstances - i'd be ****ed!)

- its all fine that these things are going on as it IS JUST BUSINESS - athgletes careers ARE very short - and in any other drivers shoes other than Alonso's i'd have done the same. However still find it somewhat disrespectful and disloyal after what Renault have done for him - especially when you think about the message it puts accross "to be a world chmpion, in an efficient team, and move to your closest rivals" - it might be seen as a bit of an insult?

Kicking-back · 21 Dec 2005, 15:59 (Ref:1488147)

Fernando's contract with Renault runs out at the end of 2006.

He was free to sign with whoever he wished for after that - and has done so.

T0MAT01 · 21 Dec 2005, 16:15 (Ref:1488161)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherlock Holmes

However still find it somewhat disrespectful and disloyal after what Renault have done for him

Do you need reminding that Renault dropped Jarno Trulli (Alonso's friend) for the final three races of 2004?

Teams can be just as disloyal as drivers.

ASCII Man · 21 Dec 2005, 16:22 (Ref:1488162)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The STIG

well that was just an example - what about Nigel Mansell, Damon hill and Williams?

What about them?

Nigel asked for a (substantial) pay rise, didn't get it and got shafted.
Damon, well.., just basically got shafted.

chillibowl · 21 Dec 2005, 16:22 (Ref:1488163)

i would argue that Alonso did more for Renault than the other way around.

sure they built a reliable car - but did they do that for Alonso or their corporate image. add that to the fact that the fastest car this year was not theirs(debatable of course) and still Alonso took it to victory. whatever the advantages are of being in F1 and being the Champ etc. Alonso already lived up to all of Renault expectations - what more should he give them?

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