FIA App K regulations - 01-01-2012

[Peter Mallett]

New regs here:

http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public...10.12.2010.pdf

[Brian A]

Thanks Peter for the link - have downloaded a copy and have been ploughing through it.

One interesting change for this year is that for cars from period F (post 1961) onwards, harnesses must be 6 point, good for the sale of seat belts no doubt.

Must go out and check the WSM as I may be taking it to Spa this year, and I know how fussy they are about such things.

May have to change the seat as well......or perhaps stick to the Elite.

[Mike Bell]

[QUOTE=Brian A;2811857] One interesting change for this year is that for cars from period F (post 1961) onwards, harnesses must be 6 point, good for the sale of seat belts no doubt.
QUOTE]

Well spotted Brian, that change wasn't so easy to see!

So for 1962 cars on we all now need 6 point harness, but the requirement for straps to be 3" wide has gone......

There is some change to the roll cage regs but need time to read through that lot!

Re: fuel caps the regs mention 'one way safety valve fitted between the cap and fuel tank'. According to the UK Scrutineer I was talking to at end of last season in his opinion the 'Monza' cap with seperate locking plug (either by key or turnhandle thing) beneath was OK for 2011, so hopefully it can be defined as a safety valve, although two way not one way.......

[Peter Mallett]

I'm still uncertain on the seat thing. I guess I really need to fit a FIA approved seat. Already got the 6 point harness.

[zefarelly]

6 point good IMO

[Mike Bell]

But a lot of 'period' seats don't have aperture in base for them and with glassfibre car need to have somewhere on floor to locate them, so looks like a way of getting owners to spend lots of money.....

[Brian A]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

......so looks like a way of getting owners to spend lots of money.....

So what's new?

[terence]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

But a lot of 'period' seats don't have aperture in base for them and with glassfibre car need to have somewhere on floor to locate them, so looks like a way of getting owners to spend lots of money.....

You are allowed to cut a hole in the swab to cater for for the anti sub strap Mike. [Acording to the Blue Book]

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by terence bower

You are allowed to cut a hole in the swab to cater for for the anti sub strap Mike. [Acording to the Blue Book]

Blue book? That's MSA, not FIA, isn't it- could be risky...........

Seriously, thanks for that. I don't know if Gilbern will be out this year but at least know what needs doing- as well as all other work on list!

Checking Cobra site they now do FIA approved 'classically styled' narrow highback.

Havn't got to grips with Rollcage rules yet, but always got confused by them anyway.

[terence]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Blue book? That's MSA, not FIA, isn't it- could be risky...........

Seriously, thanks for that. I don't know if Gilbern will be out this year but at least know what needs doing- as well as all other work on list!

Checking Cobra site they now do FIA approved 'classically styled' narrow highback.

Havn't got to grips with Rollcage rules yet, but always got confused by them anyway.

OMP are probably the most 'authentic' looking Mike,thier 'Brands Seat' is perfect for most sports cars,they fit! Only thing with this type is that you must have the Head Restraint/Rest fitted. They are probably the lightest available of all tube framed seat

[esper]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

But a lot of 'period' seats don't have aperture in base for them and with glassfibre car need to have somewhere on floor to locate them, so looks like a way of getting owners to spend lots of money.....

brazing a plate or bar between 2 chassistubes in a glassfibre car wont coast that much........unless you have a Lotus.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by esper

brazing a plate or bar between 2 chassistubes in a glassfibre car wont coast that much........unless you have a Lotus.

Luckily Esper I don't have a Lotus and luckily have found on looking underneath that there is already a cross tube near enough to be used for mounts! Just need to work out if seat can be modded or if will have to be replaced.

[simon drabble]

in my Merlyn I use a Tillett karting seat - they have great lateral support and actually look semi period. They are also cheap.

[zefarelly]

I just think 4 point is dangerous if you have a shunt, particularly head on, and if your in a more prone position

If there's the will there's a way, I've just welded fixings to the chassis of a car and cut the GRP from the floor etc, nothing visibly noticable but as safe as your going to be in an old car is the idea at least

[Peter Mallett]

I think four point is fine but you do need to make sure the lap belts are in the right place. Hence not good for two driver or pit stop races. The cost difference isn't really that great either. The vertical straps on a six point shouldn't do anything other than tie down the lap belts.

[FISCracer]

Web link to new regs is

http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public...10.12.2010.pdf

The key changes seem to me to be:

5.15.1 All cars of Period F onwards with a roll bar must be equipped with 6-point harnesses conforming to Article 253.6 of the current Appendix J.


Fuel filler caps and necks:
When a car is fitted with an exposed fuel filler cap, the filler neck must be fitted with a one way safety valve fitted between the filler cap and the fuel tank(s).
5.5.7 Any fuel lines or tubes that may carry fuel passing through the driver/passenger compartment must be protected and, if non-metallic, must be internally or externally metal braided hydraulic pressure hoses or fuel lines complying with FIA Appendix J Article 253 3.2. They may only be joined by screw sealing joints or vehicle manufacturer approved joints.


5.13 Rollbars / rollcages
5.13.1 Even when the present article does not demand them, rollbars are strongly recommended for all other historic cars where appropriate.
5.13.2 Requirements
(a) Periods A to E: rollbars/rollcages as specified below are recommended, except for cars originally fitted with rollbars/rollcages, which must have rollbars meeting or exceeding the specification used on the car when it was used in competition in its period.
(b) For all other periods: rollbars/rollcages providing adequate protection are obligatory. These rollbars/rollcages must be built according to the specifications set out in this article. Roll bars/roll cages in all open cars must be a minimum of 5 cm above the top of the driver’s and co-drivers’s helmets at all times.
(c) A period specification roll bar or roll cage is defined as one that was used in competition in period on the actual make and model of car. The competitor must provide evidence of the period specification when requested.
5.13.3 When a rollcage is fitted, the rear seat may be modified or removed from the car.
5.13.4 Aluminium cages are banned in any period unless they are an original integral part of the car’s structure (e.g. Porsche 908, 917). When a safety cage made of a light alloy is described on a homologation extension applicable to the car concerned or was part of the original specification, the original design of this cage may be replicated provided the material used is steel, in accordance with Appendix VI A or B, and the original dimensions of the tubes are maintained.
5.13.5 Specifications
The specification of the roll bar/roll cage installed must be detailed on the Roll Over Protection System Description document which must be attached to the car’s HTP.
(a) For Period F Formula 1 cars (1/1/1961 - 31/12/1965), if the safety rollbar / roll cage is an integral part of the vehicle’s structure, it may be used in place of the one stipulated elsewhere in this article 5.13.
(b) For Periods F and GR, single-seat and two-seat racing cars must be fitted with a rollbar / roll cage conforming to period specification (if a rollbar / roll cage was required) or Art. 277 of Appendix VI A to this regulation.Rearward braces may be replaced (or complemented) by forward-facing ones, which must be attached to the main hoop at a distance from its summit of not more than one third of the distance between its summit and its bottom mounting point; such braces must not impede the exit of the occupants from the car.

8.3.2.1.3 Roof reinforcement :
Compulsory for cars CT and GTS over 2000 cc
The upper part of the safety cage must comply with one of Drawings K-19, K-20 or K21.
The reinforcements may follow the curve of the roof.
For competitions without co-drivers, in the case of Drawing K-19 only, only one diagonal member may be fitted but its front connection must be on the driver’s side.
The ends of the reinforcements must be less than 100 mm from the junction between rollbars and members (not applicable to the top of the V formed by reinforcements in Drawings K-20 and K-21).
8.3.2.1.4 Windscreen pillar reinforcement :
Compulsory for cars CT and GTS over 2000 cc
It must be fitted on each side of the front rollbar if dimension “A” is greater than 200 mm (Drawing K-22).
It may be bent on condition that it is straight in side view and that the angle of the bend does not exceed 20°.
Its upper end must be less than 100 mm from the junction between the front (lateral) rollbar and the longitudinal (transversal) member (see Drawing K-54 for the measurement).
Its lower end must be less than 100 mm from the (front) mounting foot of front (lateral) rollbar



Personally I don't have too much of a problem, although re-doing HTP every 5 years will make a lot of work and money for some people.

6 point harnesses are essential if you ask me. I guess we all know what happened to Barry SS at Le Mans in his MGB a few years ago with a 4 point harness - submarined and broke his sternum.

I'm with Jeremy on Ridgard seats. Not just comfortable but better in an old car without crumple zones as the seat deforms rather than breaks. I have seen several people injured from broken seat backs in modern fibreglass seats in older cars.

Richard

[Enrico Spaggiari]

Originally Posted by FISCracer

8.3.2.1.3 Roof reinforcement :
Compulsory for cars CT and GTS over 2000 cc
The upper part of the safety cage must comply with one of Drawings K-19, K-20 or K21.
The reinforcements may follow the curve of the roof.
For competitions without co-drivers, in the case of Drawing K-19 only, only one diagonal member may be fitted but its front connection must be on the driver’s side.
The ends of the reinforcements must be less than 100 mm from the junction between rollbars and members (not applicable to the top of the V formed by reinforcements in Drawings K-20 and K-21).

Hi everyone.
First of all, thanks for posting the link with new regs.
I have a question about the new rollbar rules. My car (Ford Mustang 1965) is fitted with a rollbar which has 1 diagonal member (drawing K-12), 1 doorbar on each side (drawing K-15) and no roof reinforcement (just main roof members). I had never have problems so far during scrutineering (both in Italy and Europe), so I am wondering if the new modifications (red text) of article 8.3.2 onwards (diagonal member for Ct and GT over 2.000cc- roof reinforcement- doorbars) apply to all periods of cars or from period F or....
Thank you fro your reply.
Kind regards.

Enrico

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Enrico Spaggiari

Hi everyone. I am wondering if the new modifications (red text) of article 8.3.2 onwards (diagonal member for Ct and GT over 2.000cc- roof reinforcement- doorbars) apply to all periods of cars or from period F or....
Kind regards.

Enrico

Enrico, my take on this- as someone with no authority at all on the subject, but have tried to interpret the regs - is that it is over 2 litre CT and GTS cars of all periods.

Which means from Jan 1947 (Start of 'E') through to whenever CT & GTS finish- could be mid 80s or later- get confused trying to work that bit out!

Maybe I am wrong regarding period 'E' cars but looks like that from Jan 1962 'F' onwards like your Mustang are included. But this is only my interpretation- hopefully some clarification will come from race organisers and scrutineers before our seasons start!

Makes me glad only have under 2 litre car- but perhaps FIA saving that for next year!

[Enrico Spaggiari]

Thanks Mike.
Unfortunately,when new rules come out it's always a matter of interpretation... Anyway I have had the same feeling as you... over 2.000cc cars for all periods :-(
More kilos in the car, more euros out of the pocket... That's motor racing, isn't it?

[simon drabble]

Jeremy your talent is wasted on this humble board...

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by simon drabble

Jeremy your talent is wasted on this humble board...

No it isn't.

Thank you Jeremy for the insight. Confirmation that the two 'Monza' caps I have fitted and which have the secondary cap underneath should be acceptable!

[terence]

So,those of us who have a tried and tested Exposed Monza cap [Spa 2009- didn't leak a drop of the 100ltr's of Belgiums 'Finest'] Now have to work out something that wont leak,doesn't negate the idea of having a quick fill filler. Why oh why cant these prats leave well alone??? Next thing we'll hear is that there are anti leak inserts available----------- from a factory owned by a director of the FIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111

[SAMD]

funny you should say that.............

[Peter Mallett]

I doubt that it's much of a problem Terry, but none-the-less it's still a pain in the butt.

that said I think there's room to plug an n/r valve on to here before fitting the Monza Cap.

[terence]

Easyier if you dont have a 3 inch filler neck though.
Why do you want to fit a Monza Cap on a small neck-all you need do is fit a screw type cap. Dont forget to get a Rollover valve fitted to your breather,thats a certain 'Fail' at Spa.