2003 or 2004 full breakdown budget needed

[tlh112728]

can someone either forward via email or put me in contact with someone who can get me a full 1 car team budget for a champcar, i dont mind if its this years budget breakdown, i need it for a term paper i am writing and it must be authentic, with realistic numbers.

i would take even a proposal if anyone has them from last year efforts to raise funds,

i have no experience in what form or cost budgets are written for champcar and really need some help for this class.

thank you so much

[GTRMagic]

I somehow doubt the teams will divulge such proprietary information....

If you worked it up yourself in terms of headcount, estimated salary, oncosts and the like.. the cost of the premises, transporters, cars, engine lease, travel & accomodation, maintenance and replacement of bits, accident damage, showcars, grid girls..... its a load of $$

In some ways it may not totally help you. A ride at DCR would cost around US$5m for the season, while the same ride elsewhere could be between US$8-10m....

The fundamental difference is the number and quality (read cost) of the crew. And the support equipment. And the spare chassis. And the testing.

Good luck with your project...

[tlh112728]

thanks gtr, i can do most all the budgets by common business rules, employee salaries, cost of travel and such but the cost of car, car parts and engine lease i have no idea about.

i have a general working idea from reading all the post that it cost approximately 10-12 million for a top team to run a car this year.

i have to guess the largest cost would be driver salary and testing/development.

if anyone can help with cost feedback then i can put the paper together in excel form and have my base to write about.

thanks for all the help

[Dov]

Hi tlh112728,

Welcome to 10/10ths....it's a great auto racing forum and I hope you stick around. Hopefully this will help you out a little bit.....it's very hard to find out the exact costs!
From cart.com:http://www.cart.com/Tech/champcar_costs.asp

[Andy H]

I have some experience from inside of one of the manufacturers and the costs on cart.com for a chassis look very high to me, the list price might be $450k but trust me the teams are really paying about $200k or thereabouts for each

Each team probably will get through 3+ chassis per driver though and then you have the costs of upgrades and parts though the season on top

No idea on engine costs I'm afraid

[Andy H]

Correction to the above the teams were paying 200k sterling for the chassis - so that's around the $500k mark CART.com is pretty much right after all

[indycool]

Most teams figure in about a crash and a half per car for parts and repair expenses.

[Omega99]

I seem to recall reading that this year's engine package coast between $1 million and $2 million per car, including rebuilds. Since each team has a backup car ready to go with an engine, that'd be between $2-$4 million for a single car team.

[sgw2]

Derrick Walker's team is a decent barrometer. $6M budget for the first car, $5M for the second (economy of scale).

His funding breaks down as follows:

TAP (from CART) $5.9M, ESP "cash" (from CART) $1.4M, Corona (for Lavin) > $2M, backers of Manning < $1M. The shortfall of perhaps $500K is mostly recovered in prize/appearance money.

ESP charges teams about $100K for engine leases. CART pays Cosworth an additional $700K to Cosworth for servicing the engines. Total team fees are about $1.2M for the engines (not sure how that breaks down).

Typical cots for a team include a staff of say 20 people per car (includes secretary, truck driver, go-fer or two), which costs at least $1.5M for compensation. Travel will eat up at least $500K, maybe more with overseas races. Typically you'll budget at least $1M for chassis, spares, tranny, et al. Leasing a shop, electricity, taxes, etcetera, probably eats up to $1M or more. Add management and you quickly see that Walker's price is pretty fair.

I don't see any of these costs dropping in 2004, except perhaps travel with Europe gone. The question becomes, without Pook-fare, or at leats greatly reduced Pook-fare, where is the money going to come from to fill the "in" side of the ledger?

(This is why, for example, I see Walker as a one car team around Lavin, with a second car only here and there as funding exists)

[macdaddy]

"Where the money is going to come from" is the question on everybody's minds right now. But by comparing sidepods today with the same sidepods months ago in St.Petes, I (for one) am optimistic. But the time grows short - many companies are already devising their advertising budgets for next year.

[Liz]

So if I win the Super 7 this Friday I could bankroll a car for Dale Coyne for 6 years? (I will bring my own driver). Better than I thought.

[GTRMagic]

You could take a car out for a hit yourself Liz

Then the media could interview you instead

[Snrub]

I agree with Macdaddy, there has been a massive improvement since St. Petes and it makes me optomistic too.

The US economy is improving, TV slots are improving and CART clearly has a future so I think there will be more sponsors for next year.

How does the Ford thing work. Obviously the teams pay money to Ford, but does Ford must give money back to CART for all the exposure, etc?

Liz please pay for the tentitive 8th Walker car instead of another Coyne car.

[Dov]

Liz will have her own team! She will be the owner/driver and her teammates will be Monteiro & Lavin!!

[indycool]

Liz, you got coin, you got Coyne!
The Ford deal is that CART bought 100 engines from Cosworth for $4 million a year ago. Then the deal was cut for Ford to badge the engines and be a "powering" sponsor of the series. It was a low-buck deal that included a couple of TV spots. Part of the ESP program was that CART leased the engines at $100,000 per year per car and CART paid for the rebuilds.

[dirtfan]

4 million for 100 engines comes to 40K per engine - you can't get a Gaerte 410 Sprint Car engine for that! Obviously Ford subsidized the hell out of that deal to get their name on the series. Not bad, just good marketing.

[indycool]

Remember that all the tooling was already in place and these engines were just "shelved" with no value and no place to go unless CART did a deal. Plus CART is paying for the rebuilds.