Nurburgring 24 hours

AndrewF31 · 12 Apr 2009, 17:40 (Ref:2439376)

The Nordschleife classic is just over a month away so I was wondering what sort of information is already available on who's going, interesting cars to look out for.

We've already hear about Audi's new GT3 R8 LMS car they're bringing along. They'll be there with Audi's customer teams Abt Sportsline, Argo Racing, Oreca, Phoenix Racing and Rosberg.

http://www.endurance-info.com/versio...rance-851.html reports that Schubert Racing will enter an Official GT4 BMW M3 for Jorg Muller and Andy Priaulx, if my French doesn't fail me.

Last year there were some interesting looking cars, namely the Alzen Hankook Porsches and the Aston Martin Vantages.

courageous · 12 Apr 2009, 19:31 (Ref:2439421)

Well, you can find the entry list & results of the 1st round of VLN (which is basically the same as the 'ring 24) here:

http://www.vln.de/rennen.gb.php?id=2009-04-04

3 new classes of car which you might expect at the front:
SP9 = GT3
SP10 = GT4
Cup 3 = Porsche Cup

Don't expect the Opel Astra DTM car to show up for the '24, but any of the others are possible.

Will Radio Le Mans cover the race again this year?

Graham Goodwin · 25 Apr 2009, 09:41 (Ref:2449102)

Quote:

Originally Posted by courageous

Will Radio Le Mans cover the race again this year?

Working on final details but I hope so yes

**skycafe** · 12 Apr 2009, 21:07 (Ref:2439468)

I don't think the Rover Mini is eligable any more

Is the Fiat 500 Abarth Turbo eligable? (I don't recall the exact name)

Is VW returning with the Scirocco's after last year's great debut?

Dead-Eye · 12 Apr 2009, 22:16 (Ref:2439502)

Quote:

Originally Posted by skycafe

I don't think the Rover Mini is eligable any more

It isn't

Quote:

Is the Fiat 500 Abarth Turbo eligable? (I don't recall the exact name)

The new one? I can't see why it wouldn't be

Quote:

Is VW returning with the Scirocco's after last year's great debut?

Yes - but I don't think they'll have the same quality of drivers this time.

Acid09 · 12 Apr 2009, 22:30 (Ref:2439509)

Don't expect a maxed out grid this year as the economy has hit Germany too. The first round of the VLN attracted around 170 cars instead of the usual maxed out grid.

And many VLN teams fear the costs of the 24h race so I wouldn't be surprised if we end up with 150something competitors.

Still, pretty respectable. Too bad BMW won't be bringing the M3, looks like Audi will win themselves another 24h race this year.

Speed-King · 13 Apr 2009, 06:47 (Ref:2439624)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acid09

Don't expect a maxed out grid this year as the economy has hit Germany too. The first round of the VLN attracted around 170 cars instead of the usual maxed out grid.

And many VLN teams fear the costs of the 24h race so I wouldn't be surprised if we end up with 150something competitors.

Still, pretty respectable. Too bad BMW won't be bringing the M3, looks like Audi will win themselves another 24h race this year.

I wouldn't bet against Manthey or Zakspeed...

Duffers917K · 13 Apr 2009, 10:34 (Ref:2439717)

I expect Manthey to win again. Despite the start problems they dominated last year.

**skycafe** · 12 Apr 2009, 23:02 (Ref:2439526)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

Yes - but I don't think they'll have the same quality of drivers this time.

COOL!! That is an awesome car.

Robert, the VW owner.

Oh, and only 150 cars.....send 25 to the States muy pronto please!

Subaru_WRX_STi · 13 Apr 2009, 10:33 (Ref:2439716)

Zakspeed Viper CC coud it fight for the overall victory against the Manthey RSR and the Audi camp ?

Antho · 13 Apr 2009, 11:26 (Ref:2439742)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subaru_WRX_STi

Zakspeed Viper CC coud it fight for the overall victory against the Manthey RSR and the Audi camp ?

The Zakspeed Dodge was very quick in VLN. But what about it reliability ?
Manthey is very experienced, has a reliable car and a very good line up so...

I think we will have a very interesting race !

About Scirocco, I think that Vanina Ickx will be at the wheel ;-)

Speed-King · 13 Apr 2009, 11:57 (Ref:2439757)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subaru_WRX_STi

Zakspeed Viper CC coud it fight for the overall victory against the Manthey RSR and the Audi camp ?

GT3s are suppossed to be competitive for overall victories this year, so they should have the speed. Reliability and - probably most important in that race - luck? I don't know, but I sure hope so.

Spyderman · 13 Apr 2009, 14:51 (Ref:2439821)

Yes, they have fiddled with the rules to such an extreme, that the 997 RSR is now actually about 16Km/h slower than the 997 Cup S on top speed.
The RSR is still slightly quicker around the track , due to higher downforce.

Speed-King · 13 Apr 2009, 15:03 (Ref:2439825)

I think they want to move away from the expensive RSRs in the long term and make full-on GT3 their top class, as it is cheaper and allows for much more variety than the usual "Porsche-Cup" that we had on top of the field for the last decade or so. It also allows teams from other GT3-series to compete in the 24hrs.
I think it would be kinda cool, if the 24hrs became to GT3 and GT4 what Le Mans is for LMPs and GT2s, i.e. the race everybody wants to race at and where the best meet.

Spyderman · 14 Apr 2009, 05:49 (Ref:2440180)

That may be true, but then why not simply ban the GT2 cars?
There is something perverted (IMO) in fiddling with rules so that they greatly distort reality; A GT2 should never be slower than a GT3 car in a straight line. That's just my opinion.

Speed-King · 14 Apr 2009, 07:24 (Ref:2440216)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spyderman

That may be true, but then why not simply ban the GT2 cars?
There is something perverted (IMO) in fiddling with rules so that they greatly distort reality; A GT2 should never be slower than a GT3 car in a straight line. That's just my opinion.

I think it's just fair to give the GT2s a chance to run for a few more years. After all a lot of the VLN-teams are relatively small privateer-outfits and an RSR is a massive investment.

Acid09 · 14 Apr 2009, 15:29 (Ref:2440548)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speed-King

I think it's just fair to give the GT2s a chance to run for a few more years. After all a lot of the VLN-teams are relatively small privateer-outfits and an RSR is a massive investment.

But the series needs the spectacular, expansive cars to draw crowds. If anybody remembers the early & mid 90s, when Porsche Cup cars were the dominant entries in the VLN & the 24h race - And that was boring as hell.

Personally, I think GT3s are pretty boring, a GT3-class Porsche is not much more but a GT3-Cup car - Boring.

The series needs cars like the Alzen Turbo Porsche to spearhead the field. And their current way of penalising the teams who go all the way to field expensive but spectacular cars is questionable to say the least.

And it won't break the Porsche dominance either, if a GT3-Cup S is all it takes to win, then teams will be getting that one. Or does anybody believe that a long-term Porsche team will switch to an Ascari or Aston Martin just for fun?

Spyderman · 14 Apr 2009, 10:42 (Ref:2440344)

I see your point, but I also think there are "other" interests at play. One being that the organizers would like to see "other" makes on the podium.

b555 · 14 Apr 2009, 16:06 (Ref:2440575)

I'm suprised that RSR is slower than the cup s.what has changed in the 2009 reg.?

Spyderman · 14 Apr 2009, 17:54 (Ref:2440661)

Air restrictors!

Dead-Eye · 14 Apr 2009, 18:02 (Ref:2440669)

Rumour has it that Manthey were sandbagging massively to avoid a restrictor adjustment before the 24h.

Spyderman · 15 Apr 2009, 06:40 (Ref:2441030)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

Rumour has it that Manthey were sandbagging massively to avoid a restrictor adjustment before the 24h.

Manthey has no need to sandbag, as they have a choice of running both the GT3 Cup and the RSR. It's just a question of which one is quicker around the circuit.

Dead-Eye · 15 Apr 2009, 12:46 (Ref:2441326)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Manthey has no need to sandbag, as they have a choice of running both the GT3 Cup and the RSR. It's just a question of which one is quicker around the circuit.

One of the drivers of the DTM Astra said the Manthey RSR was literally waiting for him. I see no reason to doubt him.

And your argument isn't logical. If the RSR shows that it's quicker than a GT3 now, it will receive a restrictor cut. Better to run with the Cup cars now and go all out at the 24h, having an advantage over the others.

Félix · 15 Apr 2009, 14:53 (Ref:2441424)

Monza FIA GT2 and GT3 trap speeds probably show that the GT3s are faster there... Nordshleife straights are damn long too

And outside of the always-unreliable Alzen Alien, the best cars lately have been generic Porsches sooped-up to win overall. Well they want the generic GT2 RSR Porsche to be replaced by the GT3 variety... and to be joined by the dozen of GT3 racers that are just as fast!

Spyderman · 15 Apr 2009, 15:00 (Ref:2441428)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

One of the drivers of the DTM Astra said the Manthey RSR was literally waiting for him. I see no reason to doubt him.

And your argument isn't logical. If the RSR shows that it's quicker than a GT3 now, it will receive a restrictor cut. Better to run with the Cup cars now and go all out at the 24h, having an advantage over the others.

No, they have just changed the rules on April 1st. They are not going to further restrict the RSR before the 24h race.
Manthey has already won the first round of VLN in the RSR.
Again - the RSR is quicker around the track; but it lacks on top speed in relation to the Cup S

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