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12 Jan 2004, 20:33 (Ref:835864) | #1 | ||
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History of the Gibson Nissan GTR
Came across this gem, giving a blow by blow of the Nissan GTR's history in Australian Motor Racing.
http://www.overflow.250x.com/Obakemono%20Downunder.html Well worth a read! |
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12 Jan 2004, 21:40 (Ref:835922) | #2 | ||
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Certainly is well worth a read The Nissan Skyline GT-R and the Gibson Motorsport team were the best touring car and team in Australia by a long stretch at the time.
But it doesnt get too involved in the history that led Nissan to that point. The years of 1.8L turbo Bluebirds that had unfathomable boost pressures to keep up with the V8s, the wonky DR30 Skylines that looks like the front and the back of the cars didnt talk to each other, or indeed the anaemic HR31 Skyline that was strangled by a tiny turbocharger. Nissan built a better mousetrap and were penalised for it. That Ford (or Andy Rouse anyway) couldnt get an AWD Sierra Sapphire to work is hardly Nissan's fault.... |
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12 Jan 2004, 22:08 (Ref:835947) | #3 | |
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Remember Sksifes roll at Adelaide...that was a classic
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12 Jan 2004, 22:14 (Ref:835958) | #4 | ||
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Sure was.. and it was the brand spanker too... oh well, plenty of money back in those days to fix things...
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12 Jan 2004, 23:14 (Ref:836015) | #5 | ||
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Yes, and thanks to the powers that were, we know have one less manufacturer who is interested in Australian Motorsport.
I count this as one of the darkest tales of CAMS mismanagement. |
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13 Jan 2004, 02:13 (Ref:836116) | #6 | ||
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Quote:
The Cossie Sierra Sapphire came out after the chosen Group A weapon and did very well in its home contries so I don't think Ford would have had any reason too have a race version. |
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13 Jan 2004, 10:33 (Ref:836415) | #7 | ||
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I thought the Sapphire didn't come out until 1990, by which time Group A was in it's last year (of sorts) in the BTCC. What benefit would it have been to Rouse to develop a car that would have been extinct within a year? While Sapphires did carry on in the BTCC into 1991, no-one had any real success with them; in fact, the turbo-less RS Cossies did better than them...
Also, did I once read somewhere that Dick Johnson had a Sapphire shell at the workshop all ready to fit out into a race car? Was that true? |
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13 Jan 2004, 10:42 (Ref:836424) | #8 | ||
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There was an AWD Sierra as well, used in WRC.... which was th ebasis for it
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13 Jan 2004, 10:58 (Ref:836434) | #9 | ||
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Yeah, Stuart Turner admitted that Ford took too long to produce the AWD Sierra. Perhaps if it came out a little earlier and Group A had lasted a little longer...apart from the AWD components, the rest were all from the RS500. Sending 550+ hp through all four wheels would have solved their rear tyre woes. Sure, it might not have handled too well, but it's not like the RS500 ever did.
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13 Jan 2004, 11:14 (Ref:836447) | #10 | ||
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If a reasonable turbo/4WD equivalency factor in Gr.A was implemented, Gr.A would still be running today in my opinion.
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13 Jan 2004, 19:17 (Ref:837005) | #11 | ||
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The Sapphire only ever raced in the BTCC in 2-litre non-turbo form- it first appeared when a class for the new 2-litre regs was first introduced in 1990, and Rouse built one for the new regs which was driven by Ray Bellm. (Rouse himself stuck to the 'big' class in the RS500). After the 2-litre rules took over fully in 91, Robb Gravett's Trakstar outfit tried the Sapphire route with little success. Dave Brodie also tried a 4x4 version of the Sapphire that year, but the car only appeared a few times |
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13 Jan 2004, 22:54 (Ref:837239) | #12 | ||
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I remember last year, Mark Skaife saying that the GTR was actually a real 'handful" and "crude" plus the drivability and power curves of the VX Commodore is a helluva alot nicer to drive for a lap!
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13 Jan 2004, 23:03 (Ref:837249) | #13 | |||
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Methinks he had his red hat on |
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13 Jan 2004, 23:17 (Ref:837270) | #14 | |
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13 Jan 2004, 23:18 (Ref:837272) | #15 | ||
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Remember that a V8 Supercar also could be a ****load more quicker aswell. Rev limits, Diff ratios, Downforce limits, Higher spec heads, and IRS for a start....
And for a naturally-aspirated 5.0l pushrod engines, the 635hp power figures are astounding! We'll have to see how the new Generation GTRs go in Procar against the famous Monaro racers! |
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14 Jan 2004, 00:07 (Ref:837314) | #16 | ||
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14 Jan 2004, 01:08 (Ref:837358) | #17 | ||
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87ish. Saying the GTR would wipe the floor with a V8SC is a big call, obviously grabbing the GTR as last raced by Skaife wouldn't know which way the V8SC went but with a decade of development added to the GTR and a works team, it would be interesting. |
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14 Jan 2004, 01:13 (Ref:837362) | #18 | ||
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AA has to try something to sell there mag
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14 Jan 2004, 01:13 (Ref:837365) | #19 | ||
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Sorry wrong thread
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14 Jan 2004, 01:21 (Ref:837372) | #20 | ||
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I'll have to dig through my old pile of Auto Action's, but i recall a story in there, probably from about 1991, where Johnson is talking about the new 4x4 Ford Escort Cosworth, and how that would form the basis for his 1993 Touring Car challenge. That was obviously before Channel 7/Holden/Ford/Shell got together and rail roaded CAMS into what we have now. He definatly had plans to them.
I also recall Johnson heading over the Europe, must have been the end of 1990, trying to talk Ford into homologating a 4WD Ford Sierra, so he could live with GTR's. There is no point discussing whether a current day V8 would be faster than the Group A Nissan. All that can be said is that when the 1992/93 spec V8s went up against the Nissan GTR's, they got caned by the Nissan, though they were abit under-developed then. |
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14 Jan 2004, 01:56 (Ref:837390) | #21 | ||
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I'll back you there racer69. IIRC Dick had given up on the prospect of the Sapphire AWD and had started some serious investigations into the Escort Cosworth, as appeared in the WRC, for the 1993 season. The rest is history.....unfortunately.
Last edited by Peregrine; 14 Jan 2004 at 01:57. |
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14 Jan 2004, 02:40 (Ref:837413) | #22 | ||
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If my race car weighed almost 1,600kg full of juice on the grid I would think it was unweildy and horrible to drive to some extent too. Lets not forget there were no splitters on the GT-R, or massive rear wing like on the current speedsters....
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14 Jan 2004, 07:30 (Ref:837556) | #23 | |||
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The Group A GT-R Skyline was about 300kg heavier than a Group A commodore. |
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14 Jan 2004, 07:37 (Ref:837563) | #24 | |||
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In Group A, the Nissans had 100-150hp more than the Commodores, were 300-400kg heavier and had all wheel drive, they were otherwise quite similar. Nowadays, the V8SC have bridged the power gap, gained proper aerodynamics and retained the healthy weight advantage. The Nissan would have only AWD in its favour. Not enough. |
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14 Jan 2004, 07:57 (Ref:837573) | #25 | ||
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"You can get lucky and win one championship but not two ..." Jamie Whincup. I wonder which person with the initials RK he was referring to. |
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