The least powerfull car that can reach 200mph!

[Robin Plummer]

These days all these supercars have 550bhp-600bhp to get to 200mph+. But in 1987 the production Ferrari F40 with 478bhp could reach 201.3mph. I seem to recall the 1987 Porsche 959 could do 197mph with "just" 450bhp. As cars these days get better and more powerfull they seem to be geting slower!. Does anyone know of any others out there production or otherwise?

[Paul H]

The race versions of the Plymouth Roadrunner Superbird (and its Dodge Charger Daytona twin) were lapping the oval circuits at over 200mph, in 1970 (due to the homologation requirements, I believe that this may have classified them as the fastest production car at the time).

Don't know how much power that required though!

[Bob Riebe]

Three items to consider:
Gearing
Aerodynamics
Tire drag (At Bonneville they run very narrow tires.)
Track length

[BSchneiderFan]

So, four items then.

(Our main weapon is fear. Fear, and surprise. Our two main weapons...)

[Frank de Jong]

Somewhere in my infamous database I found the Mercedes 300 SLR; 310 HP and a Vmax of 320 kmh.

[macca]

I think that's a bit optimistic for the 300SLR, even the coupe version. The Ferrari 121LM (4412cc, straight-6, 350bhp) of Eugenio Castelloti exactly matched Stirling Moss' 300SLR on the long straights of the Mille Miglia in 1955, and both were less aerodynamic than the 3.8L longnose D-Type, so I think 175mph would be about the maximum.

In 1964 the prototype Ford GT40 and the Ferrari 330P (380-400 bhp) were said to be doing 185mph at Le Mans, and one Ford got a good tow and went over 200mph as it passed two Ferraris; the Mk II Ford GT with 425bhp went over 200mph.

I think some of the Group C2 cars of the late 1980s with 400bhp DFVs did 200mph, with the benefit of modern aero knowledge, so I reckon that's the minimum power.

The first LSR car to do 200mph, the twin engined Sunbeam, had 1000bhp, by the way.

PWM

[krt917]

Originally posted by macca
I think that's a bit optimistic for the 300SLR, even the coupe version. The Ferrari 121LM (4412cc, straight-6, 350bhp) of Eugenio Castelloti exactly matched Stirling Moss' 300SLR on the long straights of the Mille Miglia in 1955, and both were less aerodynamic than the 3.8L longnose D-Type, so I think 175mph would be about the maximum.

In an old Le Mans article, the Mercs were 'officially' timed at 180mph/ So yes, that's still a fair way from the 200mph barrier. Aston Martin Project 215 touched 198mph down the Mulsanne, but I don't know how much power that had.

I think the reason supercars aren't going any quicker even with more power is, as hinted at by Bob Riebe, that they don't have such long gearing. Once you've reached those 'magic' numbers, there's little point in going any higher from a marketing/showing off point of view unless you're going to take a shot at the McLaren F1, which is proving to be a difficult target.

I also suspest that the latest generation probably get their more smoothly and more safely, though I imagine the 959 still takes a bit of beating on the technical ability side.

[ascarracinguk]

you can do it with no HP if you have a large enough gas canister! ;-)

[Schummy]

Originally posted by macca

I think some of the Group C2 cars of the late 1980s with 400bhp DFVs did 200mph, with the benefit of modern aero knowledge, so I reckon that's the minimum power.

Group C2 cars required a good amount of dowforce as every road racing car does. Since downforce is pretty unefficient in terms of sheer max speed (aero drag), I assume an unrealisticly designed car can do 200 mph with a lot less hp.

Of course another thing is what amount of hp is needed in a "realistic" normal road car.

[Paul H]

Are these Group C2 cars the ones which look similar to a contempory Le Mans racer, and is this the class in which ADA (Anglo-Dutch-American) were racing?

[macca]

Yes, those are the ones - marques such as Tiga, Spice, Ecosse, URD, Gebhardt, ADA, Argo, etc.

The 1987 Ecosse with a 3.3L DFV giving 467bhp did 200mph at Le Mans; earlier cars (1983 onwards) with less advanced aerodynamics and less downforce may have been as fast in a straight line, I suspect.

PWM

[Paul H]

Thanks for answering that - I'd been wondering which class the ADA raced in. I used to work for the mechanical engineer who designed, built and developed the engines which replaced the ADA's DFV for the last season before the series was axed. (It was a 5.8 litre, quad cam V6, with gear-driven cams and ancillaries but although it required a new subframe, it didn't require a wheelbase stretch compared to the DFV. IIRC, the final race ones were producing about 650bhp, but also with comparatively good fuel consumption.)

[Mackmot]

I think you would have to look back before the war for a massive engine giving a lot of torque at low revs