888 Gets Off... Time To Fix The Rules?

[GTRMagic]

Story Here

Its hard to understand how there is no penalty here.. the car controller of #888 clearly touched the wheel of the car, and pulled it out of the way. He had arguably taken his focus from the other activity on the car, namely the fuel that was still being completed, to move that wheel.

Imagine had the car spilled fuel and caused a fire? Where would the car controller be then? Playing with his wheel

That's 2 car controller failures at 888 now. Mr Dane can make light of it and try and politick a solution that serves his own purposes, but it isnt good enough.

The rules are clearly ambiguous here. Time for Mr White & co to rewrite them to make the car controller physically in charge of their lollipop board, and nothing else in the stop, or a PLP ensues at a minimum, a fine and other time penalties at the other extreme

Its time.. please..

[Umai Naa]

In that particular instance, there's no rule saying he couldn't do it, but the rules state what his duties are, and that was the intent behind doing it.

I really don't think anyone would argue against allowing the car controller to shift a removed left front wheel, to ensure a safe exit. As long as that is the limit of of his duties.

I think the sour grapes have appeared from those thinking "Why didn't we think of that!?", or are simply not fans of Triple Eight.

[GTRMagic]

From my perspective, it wouldnt make a difference if it was 888 or LDM who has an errant car controller thinking he can help in the stop.

Their job is to maintain control of the car when it is in the pitlane, and ultimately in the pit box. They dont have to do anything else.

There is a crew of expensive, highly trained individuals whose responsibility it is to physically touch the car or the bits to go on or come off, or damage repair. Or to build a safe passage out of the pit lane.

Imagine if in the 888 instance the tyre wasnt moved. The #888 would have run over it, and likely caused the team a drive thru penalty for an unsafe release, plus whatever damage is happening to the car from that hit.

The question is, why werent the 2 guys putting the tyre on the front making sure the one coming off the car was in its right position. They practice this stuff for hours a day at the workshop, and on the apron at the race track when they are there.

It is a team penalty.

Time to tighten the rules perhaps to make it so?

[fredd1]

Oh don't you start.
Gosh between you and Larko - that's two of you spruiking to the V8SC officials telling tales. Haven't they got eyes that can see, access to telecasts, etc?
Larkhams obsession with pimping cruelled the telecast for me.

[kerb]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

From my perspective, it wouldnt make a difference if it was 888 or LDM who has an errant car controller thinking he can help in the stop.

Their job is to maintain control of the car when it is in the pitlane, and ultimately in the pit box. They dont have to do anything else.

There is a crew of expensive, highly trained individuals whose responsibility it is to physically touch the car or the bits to go on or come off, or damage repair. Or to build a safe passage out of the pit lane.

Imagine if in the 888 instance the tyre wasnt moved. The #888 would have run over it, and likely caused the team a drive thru penalty for an unsafe release, plus whatever damage is happening to the car from that hit.

The question is, why werent the 2 guys putting the tyre on the front making sure the one coming off the car was in its right position. They practice this stuff for hours a day at the workshop, and on the apron at the race track when they are there.

It is a team penalty.

Time to tighten the rules perhaps to make it so?

ok lets sort a few things out

1 there were no front tyre changes, so i don't know why the wheel in question was out there

2 the car controller is allowed to touch the wheel as it was not assisting the stop, and he is supposed to make a clear passage for the car

it is a good point but. the rule used to be black and white, but now they are too inconsistent, take Ingal at Winton for instance

[kerb]

then again, 888 was already last, and a lap down, so DT would have been useless

[naca]

Hopefully the regulations will be updated so that this sort of thing can't happen again.

[Umai Naa]

A rule I'd like to see is defining how evidence of infringements by way of video footage is supplied or procured.

I don't feel the TV crew should be acting as dobbers everytime there's an infringement. Sure, offer up evidence AFTER the officials have launched an investigation, but definately not use it as a catalyst for a great storyline.

[porsche91722]

There are too many stupid nitpicking rules that are spoiling the sport. I couldn't care less which team it was, and I have the same feelings about the wheel spinning rule in pitlane that got Bright penalized yesterday. I understand the safety aspect behind it all, but I think they are getting a bit carried away with all this stuff, these days. The issue at the 12 hour earlier this year, which got a penalty for the Maranello Ferrari, was also another ridiculously stupid decision which luckily didn't stop them from winning, but it goes on and on. It makes a laughing stock of V8SC's and Aus motorsport in the eyes of the casual followers of the sport. Where will it all end?
A better option would be to perhaps give the teams a warning, maybe 3 strikes and you then cop a drive through, for these minor offenses.

[naca]

Originally Posted by porsche91722

There are too many stupid nitpicking rules that are spoiling the sport. I couldn't care less which team it was, and I have the same feelings about the wheel spinning rule in pitlane that got Bright penalized yesterday. I understand the safety aspect behind it all, but I think they are getting a bit carried away with all this stuff, these days. The issue at the 12 hour earlier this year, which got a penalty for the Maranello Ferrari, was also another ridiculously stupid decision which luckily didn't stop them from winning, but it goes on and on. It makes a laughing stock of V8SC's and Aus motorsport in the eyes of the casual followers of the sport. Where will it all end?
A better option would be to perhaps give the teams a warning, maybe 3 strikes and you then cop a drive through, for these minor offenses.

That'll be all well and good until someone's fingers get mangled up in a pitstop and then people will be asking why wasn't their appropriate safety regulations in the pitlane. Although having a 3 strike system with largish financial penalties (5k for first, 10k for second, DT for third) over an entire season would probably have the same effect.

[porsche91722]

Originally Posted by naca

That'll be all well and good until someone's fingers get mangled up in a pitstop and then people will be asking why wasn't their appropriate safety regulations in the pitlane. Although having a 3 strike system with largish financial penalties (5k for first, 10k for second, DT for third) over an entire season would probably have the same effect.

You wouldn't get outa bed every day if you were that concerned about every little possibility that could happen.
My point is that pitlane is inherently a very unsafe place anyway. They seem to be just going overboard with penalties that can ruin a teams weekend, and possibly a season, over some minor infringement that may or may not take place. There's a chance that they may injure a team member in their own pitbay (not on track or in pitlane), which would then handicap the team anyway, not any other competitor.
To a degree, it is the same argument that I have with catch fencing. Circuits are going more and more with this stuff, which is ruining the paying spectators view, and all because of the chance that something may happen.

[nafe!]

Originally Posted by porsche91722

There are too many stupid nitpicking rules that are spoiling the sport. I couldn't care less which team it was, and I have the same feelings about the wheel spinning rule in pitlane that got Bright penalized yesterday. I understand the safety aspect behind it all, but I think they are getting a bit carried away with all this stuff, these days. The issue at the 12 hour earlier this year, which got a penalty for the Maranello Ferrari, was also another ridiculously stupid decision which luckily didn't stop them from winning, but it goes on and on. It makes a laughing stock of V8SC's and Aus motorsport in the eyes of the casual followers of the sport. Where will it all end?
A better option would be to perhaps give the teams a warning, maybe 3 strikes and you then cop a drive through, for these minor offenses.

Totally agree. Great races are ruined over completely ridiculous things. Do we want this to be a sport won by drivers putting on a fantastic show or a knit picking bureaucracy?

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

A rule I'd like to see is defining how evidence of infringements by way of video footage is supplied or procured.

I don't feel the TV crew should be acting as dobbers everytime there's an infringement. Sure, offer up evidence AFTER the officials have launched an investigation, but definately not use it as a catalyst for a great storyline.

From the look of it, they all send emails up to Race Control via their V8SC intranet... Wasnt Mr Edwards in the middle of sending another cry-o-gram when the #7 bods were talking to him yesterday?

The whole thing is that the rules exist so they should be policed, and not need the allegedly infringing team's opponents to tell tales..

If V8SC cant police the rules, if V8SC cant observe all of the activities in the lane.. its time to add more resource to that process, not wait till Mr Crompton play's home viewer judiciary and declares a failure...

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

The whole thing is that the rules exist so they should be policed, and not need the allegedly infringing team's opponents to tell tales..

If V8SC cant police the rules, if V8SC cant observe all of the activities in the lane.. its time to add more resource to that process, not wait till Mr Crompton play's home viewer judiciary and declares a failure...

Don't know if they still do so but there used to be observers (usually scrutineers) in place at every pit bay who had a reporting structure and observer reports to fill out for every stop. Plus V8 staff in the pit lane. Those two things were the main two ways of observing / policing in pit lane although I'd imagine that the judicial cameras might get a workout at times.

The car controller rules are quite straightforward & with a primary responsibility of safety and with prevention from working on the car (but not an errant wheel) then it appears that 888 were within the rules. Maybe it's simply a case of the other team mentioned complaining and Ch7 commentators needing to actually, I don't know, understand the rules?

[Casper]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

If V8SC cant police the rules, if V8SC cant observe all of the activities in the lane.. its time to add more resource to that process, not wait till Mr Crompton play's home viewer judiciary and declares a failure...

A better approach would be to free up the rules and let everyone race. The nanny state that car racing has gotten into trying to ensure a fairer playing field has done nothing more than ensure the whole thing is boring everyone to sleep. Give 'em manual jacks and two blokes to do it like in NASCAR. I have a novel idea, let 'em go racing instead of having stupid compulsory pit stops for no good reason at all, the issue won't arise at all then.

Note to D. White, let's run racing like we did at KG in the karts and have some fun, all these rules are BS.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Casper

I have a novel idea, let 'em go racing instead of having stupid compulsory pit stops for no good reason at all, the issue won't arise at all then.

well apart from they would have run out of fuel

[Casper]

Originally Posted by peckstar

well apart from they would have run out of fuel

Schools out, Peckys here. Bigger tanks might fix that, or actually use real fuel. Sales of E10 are falling so that experiment has not been a raging success.

[Axeman444]

Imagine all the penalties garage 25 is avoiding because V8SupercarsTV couldn't give a toss about covering their stops?

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Axeman444

Imagine all the penalties garage 25 is avoiding because V8SupercarsTV couldn't give a toss about covering their stops?

But they could be... and perhaps the boys and girls in the tower would never know... unless Mr Ingall happens to take the lead some time... and get in 888/FPR's way...

[TSR]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Story Here

Its hard to understand how there is no penalty here.. the car controller of #888 clearly touched the wheel of the car, and pulled it out of the way. He had arguably taken his focus from the other activity on the car, namely the fuel that was still being completed, to move that wheel.

Imagine had the car spilled fuel and caused a fire? Where would the car controller be then? Playing with his wheel

That's 2 car controller failures at 888 now. Mr Dane can make light of it and try and politick a solution that serves his own purposes, but it isnt good enough.

The rules are clearly ambiguous here. Time for Mr White & co to rewrite them to make the car controller physically in charge of their lollipop board, and nothing else in the stop, or a PLP ensues at a minimum, a fine and other time penalties at the other extreme

Its time.. please..

It just goes to show you all that V8supercars are scared of one R.Dane and 888, they run the whole ball & dice of v8supercar along with Holden.

[Reload]

Originally Posted by TSR

It just goes to show you all that V8supercars are scared of one R.Dane and 888, they run the whole ball & dice of v8supercar along with Holden.

Box and dice even

[gomick]

Jason Brights race was ruined on lap 1 on Sunday with that spinning rear wheel during the pit stop - freakin Ch7, snoops

[PVDA]

Originally Posted by gomick

Jason Brights race was ruined on lap 1 on Sunday with that spinning rear wheel during the pit stop - freakin Ch7, snoops

All it takes is a mechanic to lose a finger or three during a pit stop to vindicate the spinning wheels rule.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by PVDA

All it takes is a mechanic to lose a finger or three during a pit stop to vindicate the spinning wheels rule.

agreeing with you,

however the concern is that only teams that get on tv get pinged for this. no tv footage no issue apparantly

Although i see moff got pinged for it as well, was that on tv (missed the start of the race.)

Moving on, As for the lowndes incident. lets clean the rule up and make it clear. on the weekend it was unclear. If the car controller is not allowed to do anything then that should be the rule

[rich07]

Originally Posted by PVDA

All it takes is a mechanic to lose a finger or three during a pit stop to vindicate the spinning wheels rule.

Damn straight. That rule is there for that reason and that reason alone. Could end very nasty for someone on the wrong end of a spinning wheel.

As far as the car controller goes, the rule should be black and white.

-the car controller doesn't touch anything or anyone during the pitstop.

Nothing. Zero. Zip. Zilch. Nada.

There we go. No interpretation. No grey areas. No claims of doing it for safety reasons or any other excuses.

You touch something you get pinged.

Simple