[LM24] Top Speeds: Le Mans

[canam]

Last year in the race, the Pesca hit 324kph top speed--according to the ACO.

I think the Pesca will be quicker this year but the Audi will havethe capacity sto slaughter all and sundry.

My guess for this year: Quali: Audi 340 kph
Race: Audi 330 kph

The Dome will also be quick but the torque of the diesel and, for qualification, the capacity to 'fuel up' to prodigious bhp will put the Audi on top of the totem pole in terms of top speed.

[jhansen]

Intersting topic. The R8 was not usually at the top of the heap in terms of top speed. They preferred to let the overall lap-time do the talking, which of course is the most important number.

I'd say the Dome will still be quick in a straight line. Perhaps Pescarolo will be up there to. But I'm quite intrigued to see how the R10 will stack up to the R8 in terms of speed and of course lap-time. Wish they hadn't altered the circuit this year so some real comparisons could be made.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by jhansen

Intersting topic. The R8 was not usually at the top of the heap in terms of top speed. They preferred to let the overall lap-time do the talking, which of course is the most important number.

Wasn't this mainly in the later restricted years?

I think that the R10 will have a decent straight line speed. That engine can push it through the air quite well I beleive.

[SALEEN S7R]

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

Wasn't this mainly in the later restricted years?

Not 100% sure but I think the RFH domes have always been just about the quickest cars down the straights, the Audi's were never far behind up until around the 2005 race though. Still, with the R10 now on the scene and with massive diesel torque I think the R10 will be the fastest car at Le Mans this year on the straights, until 2007 at least anyway.

[jhansen]

Take 2002, the year the R8 had pole with a 3:29.905. They were mid 320kph in comparison to the Dome, Bentley, and Courage C60, which were mid 330kph.

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/trap03.html
http://www.mulsannescorner.com/trap02.html
http://www.mulsannescorner.com/trap01.html
http://www.mulsannescorner.com/trap00.html

[Adam43]

Thanks for the link reminder.

It is a bit of both, I feel. What I like best is the relative differences of the cars between practice and the race. The R8 was always more 'competitive' top speed wise in the race.

[PascaLM]

Because of the aerodynamic restrictions, the top speeds should not exceed 325 km/h. The R10 will make the most of their acceleration capacity.

[Félix]

I think the drag figures are less than 10% higher for new LMP1s... and the R8 was a 2000 chassis much bigger (frontal area-wise) than the more sculpted R10. And lift-to-drag has progressed a lot: all LMP1s are producing more downforce (a sensible increase) on a more stable (easier to exploit) aero platform. And engine power has gone up more than 100 horses compared to last year's restricted but still capable of 320+ kph.The Lola has a few hundred pounds more downforce (than the Dyson B01-60) for a drag increase closer to 5% than to 10% I think.

So I think the top speed are gonna be in high 330s for balanced cars like the Audi and could be surprisingly close to 350 for cars like the Dome or maybe the new Courage... What was Pescarolo's top speed last year? I'd guess in the mid 330s... with a wing that was replaced at the very next race (not fully developped at last year's race) And the efficiency gain of an R10 is gonna see the cars under the 3:30 barrier I guess...

[dj choc ice]

the pescarolo only got 324kmph which is about 200/201 mph which is frankly rubbish for a LMP1 car but on the DVD it said that in practice the pescarolo got 218mph in practice so maybe this year the hybrid cars will be faster than last year maybe, dome's i dont think are quite as fast as they were in their previous LMP900 form but i think that the fastest car in a straight line will be the swiss spirit courage or the creation CA06H for sure at around 210mph maybe even 215mph

[canam]

[QUOTE=Félix And engine power has gone up more than 100 horses compared to last year's restricted but still capable of 320+ kph.

So I think the top speed are gonna be in high 330s for balanced cars like the Audi and could be surprisingly close to 350 for cars like the Dome or maybe the new Courage...[/QUOTE]


The pesca (last year's polesitter) will have very little difference in horsepower.. The new GV5 may have a bit more but only maginal from a top speed perspective (maybe 1 kph)

I just noticed that the cars are running a small Gurney as part of the regs. That will reduce top speed by a lot. Was the Gurney mandatory last year? If so, I will have to lower my own estimates by roughly 5 clicks.

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by canam

The pesca (last year's polesitter) will have very little difference in horsepower.. The new GV5 may have a bit more but only maginal from a top speed perspective (maybe 1 kph)

I just noticed that the cars are running a small Gurney as part of the regs. That will reduce top speed by a lot. Was the Gurney mandatory last year? If so, I will have to lower my own estimates by roughly 5 clicks.

The mandatory rear wing gurney is new this year.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by canam

The pesca (last year's polesitter) will have very little difference in horsepower.. The new GV5 may have a bit more but only maginal from a top speed perspective (maybe 1 kph)

I just noticed that the cars are running a small Gurney as part of the regs. That will reduce top speed by a lot. Was the Gurney mandatory last year? If so, I will have to lower my own estimates by roughly 5 clicks.

I'm glad to see the ACO are intorducing things like the gurney to cut top speeds at Le Mans.

It's a clever way to cap top speeds at this unique circuit while having little effect, if any, on regular, slower, higher downforce tracks.

[JAG]

Teams may well go in the opposite direction, increased power may encourage them to run increased downforce levels for a quicker, more comfortable lap.

[The Badger]

I dont agree with that at all . The drivers are always screaming out for more power , and i feel that as they are the ones in the seat , they should get to make that call .

A certain Mr.Wallace is always looking for more power .

[JAG]

Originally Posted by The Badger

I dont agree with that at all . The drivers are always screaming out for more power , and i feel that as they are the ones in the seat , they should get to make that call .

A certain Mr.Wallace is always looking for more power .

And these days they have plenty of power once again.

Point is, top speeds at Le Mans, which is a pretty unique track, need to be kept in check.

Rather than cutting power or drastically changing the cars, it makes more sense to add little aero devices such as Gruneys to keep top speeds in check.

Better still, they have little effect on high downforce tracks were speeds are not an issue.

[canam]

It will be very interesting to see the top speed of the R10.

While they may give more downforce in the set-up, we may be able to get a good idea on how much power the car has. Theoretically, they could have 700 plus bhp--giving another 10 kph on the straght than any other car.

[dj choc ice]

Originally Posted by JAG

And these days they have plenty of power once again.

Point is, top speeds at Le Mans, which is a pretty unique track, need to be kept in check.

Rather than cutting power or drastically changing the cars, it makes more sense to add little aero devices such as Gruneys to keep top speeds in check.

Better still, they have little effect on high downforce tracks were speeds are not an issue.

ah but remeber the cars in a straight line despite their large amount of power are barely quicker than the LMP2's now which in my opinion is wrong because the LMP2 cars are basically quicker at a lot of tracks than the LMP1's which is a bit worrying, i think really they should make the cars a bit quicker in a straight to the point were the fastest they will get is 210-212mph which is not really that much to ask since these new hybrid cars should do those speeds without much hassle not barely doing 200mph and with these gruney things speeds will nor probably go below 200mph which is going a bit too far now since lemans is probably the fasest race track in europe and the only cars that race on them are becoming slower and slower and slower and now that the LMP2's are just as fast as the LMP1's it should be a wake up call to the ACO that they should reduce the drag on the cars to bring speeds up to the point were the LMP2 cars are not as fast and faster on many tracks than the LMP1's but i do agree that speeds should be kept in check but not going too far, fastest in my opinion with lower downforce is 210mph to basically avoid another mercedes CLR incident from 1999, i would love a return to the 3.5L group C formula of the early 1990's but this form of racing would die because those cars cost so much to run and only the big teams could have a chance of winning while with the current rules smaller teams have a genuine chance of winning but i say "NON" to slowing down the cars this much and "OUI" to top speeds of over 205mph atleast its really only my opinion but i feel this safety and speed kills thing is going a bit too far now, it shouldnt be ignored but it should not go this far were lower category cars are as fast as the fastest and most expensive cars

[JAG]

Originally Posted by dj choc ice

ah but remeber the cars in a straight line despite their large amount of power are barely quicker than the LMP2's now which in my opinion is wrong because the LMP2 cars are basically quicker at a lot of tracks than the LMP1's which is a bit worrying, i think really they should make the cars a bit quicker in a straight to the point were the fastest they will get is 210-212mph which is not really that much to ask since these new hybrid cars should do those speeds without much hassle not barely doing 200mph and with these gruney things speeds will nor probably go below 200mph which is going a bit too far now since lemans is probably the fasest race track in europe and the only cars that race on them are becoming slower and slower and slower and now that the LMP2's are just as fast as the LMP1's it should be a wake up call to the ACO that they should reduce the drag on the cars to bring speeds up to the point were the LMP2 cars are not as fast and faster on many tracks than the LMP1's but i do agree that speeds should be kept in check but not going too far, fastest in my opinion with lower downforce is 210mph to basically avoid another mercedes CLR incident from 1999, i would love a return to the 3.5L group C formula of the early 1990's but this form of racing would die because those cars cost so much to run and only the big teams could have a chance of winning while with the current rules smaller teams have a genuine chance of winning but i say "NON" to slowing down the cars this much and "OUI" to top speeds of over 205mph atleast its really only my opinion but i feel this safety and speed kills thing is going a bit too far now, it shouldnt be ignored but it should not go this far were lower category cars are as fast as the fastest and most expensive cars

I think you'll find the new LMP1's will be at least as quick as previous years (other than 1999), gurney flap or not. The gurney etc. will simply keep speeds in the same ball park as previous years, compensating for the huge chassis/aero/engine development the new cars have undergone.
Remember the Audi R8 is 6 years old, the R10, despite similar looks, is light years ahead of the R8 tech wise.

Personally I couldn't really care less about 5-10mph, as long as overall times are quick?

In fact the 3.5l Group C cars are a perfect example of this, they were much slower than the turbo Group C machines (600-700bhp vs 800-1000bhp) , but quicker over a single lap.

As for comparisons between LMP1/LMP2, well the only pukka LMP1's that have been well developed, are quick and reliable, the Audi R10 and Pescarolo, don't seem to have any problems pulling away from LMP2s with ease.

Comparing a factory P2 with an undeveloped P1 Dyson Lola, for example, is pointless. A very new factory R10 easily outpaced a well developed factory Porsche P2 at Sebring.

At Le Mans I'm guessing most P2's will be closer to the pacesetting GT1's than pacesetting LMP1's.

[LC2guy]

Is there a different restrictor size this year ?

[Purist]

The thing with the restrictors is that the older cars ran smaller ones than the newer cars are allowed.

BTW, would that LC2 in your forum alias be in reference to the Lancia LC2 Group C car?

[LC2guy]

Originally Posted by Purist

BTW, would that LC2 in your forum alias be in reference to the Lancia LC2 Group C car?

Certainly is. Its my favourite ever Le mans car. ( particularly in Martini colours )

[canam]

Originally Posted by Purist

The thing with the restrictors is that the older cars ran smaller ones than the newer cars are allowed.

In the LMS and Le Mans, Hybrids (older converted cars--Zytek, Pesca, Creation) have the same restrictor size as the new cars.

[Purist]

The new areo package, without the Gurney, makes the cars much less likely to lift off than the old GT1s (Mercedes CLR, Porsche 911 GT1-98). The new prototypes are much less attitude sensitive.

[prototype]

Originally Posted by Purist

The new areo package, without the Gurney, makes the cars much less likely to lift off than the old GT1s (Mercedes CLR, Porsche 911 GT1-98). The new prototypes are much less attitude sensitive.

I definately agree with you, but that doesn't mean it can't happen. I am pretty sure JJ Lehto brought the front end of the Champion R8 up in the air at Laguna Seca last year (6 inches). It was right over the hill on the front strait. The Speed broadcast said that JJ did an excellent job of keeping the car on the ground. I think he was trailing a GT2 car, and going much slower than the Porsche and Mercedes incidents.

Anyone else remember this?

[JAG]

Originally Posted by prototype

I definately agree with you, but that doesn't mean it can't happen. I am pretty sure JJ Lehto brought the front end of the Champion R8 up in the air at Laguna Seca last year (6 inches). It was right over the hill on the front strait. The Speed broadcast said that JJ did an excellent job of keeping the car on the ground. I think he was trailing a GT2 car, and going much slower than the Porsche and Mercedes incidents.

Anyone else remember this?

............and the R8 is from the same era rules as the CLR/GT-ONE/V12 LMR etc.

The R10 is the first Audi built to the new regs.