Group A Rover 3500 SD1/Vitesse - History & Whereabouts

[chunterer]

Guys n Gals!

Already got a similar Capri thread going (which seems to be petering out?!) but it made me think of the phalanx of SD1's that graced domestic and continental shores in the 80's.

I'd like to set the ball rolling on recounting the cars in their heyday and try to determine what happened to them. (what the heck lets include the Group 1 and 2 cars as well!!)

Lets explore certain mysteries?

I.E. Did the original DPR Grp 1 cars pass over to TWR to be constantly developed until the end of '82?

Did the Grp 1 cars become the Group A cars for '83 or were they new builds?

Were the '83 TWR BTCC cars the same 3 that appeared in '84?

And what about the '84 Bathurst 'Mobil' cars...were they a couple of the Sanyo cars repainted and did they then stay in the Antipodoes for the early '85 New Zealand races, again repainted in Brown 'Peanut Slab' liveries?...
And did they stay over there owned by the likes of Tim Slako (who ran one in a rather shocking pink and green scheme!)

Here's an outline of cars i know raced - can we explore what happened to them later on?

In '82 there were:
2x TWR (Allam & Lovett/Sytner)
2X Patrick/Martin Thomas (Muir + spare)
1x Dennis Leech

1983
Ocassional 1 or 2 TWR in ETC
3x TWR (Allam, Lovett, Soper)
1x Leech
1x Spice (Martin Thomas run?)
1x Charles Sawuer Hoare (Red 'Daily Mirror' Rouse run)

1984
3 x TWR ETC (2 'Fleet' and one 'Gitanes' and later 'Barclay'
BTCC
3 x TWR (Pond, Lovett/Schlesser & occasionally Soper ('Fleet') were these '83 cars or new ones?)
1x Neil McGrath ('Connells', ex Spice then still run by Martin Thomas)
1x Leech
2x Rouse (His own 'ICS' & CS-H's red car)
Also 2 cars in Germany Kurt Thiim and Olaf Manthey? who ran them?

1985
3 or 4 ETC TWR cars 'Bastos'
BTCC
1x Rouse (pETE hALL)
1X Leech
1x McGrath (now white instead of green)

after that it's a bit hazy

1986
3X TWR ETC
BTCC
Hall, Leech, McGrath
Mike O Brien (ex Hulme TWR TT winner '86?)
Tom Walkinshaw ETC car one off

1987
Tim Harvey (ex Rouse/Hall)
Skid Scarborough (ex McGrath?)
Brian Chatfield (ex Bastos)
Bill Griffin (ex TWR Marlboro Rene Metge French car)
Dennis Leech
May have been another car too?

I think Nigel Garrett's current car is the ex Rouse/Hall/Harvey/Derek Hales car?

It'll be interesting to find out more detail here and if enough comes of it then we can move it to the chassis thread depending on how many are still knocking about!

[Tim Wilkinson]

Info on the only Group 2 car here -

http://www.racecarsdirect.com/cars/d...id=27063&cat=6 (the ad is several months old)

I heard somewhere that Nigel's car had been a Thundersaloon at some point, tho that wouldn't preclude a prior works history.

[Steve Holmes]

Only one Rover came to New Zealand in 1985. I can't remember who co-drove with Walkinshaw. I have a photo of the car somewhere so will track it down. It was white, and sponsored for its Kiwi races by NZ magazine 'More'.

The following year (January 1986) Walkinshaw brought two Rovers, painted brown and sponsored by NZ chocolate company Whittakers (Peanut Slab). Have to say, the brown paint didn't look too good on those cars, not that it looks much good on anything else!

They were lovely cars, sounded beautiful, but didn't live up to expectations on either occassion on the tight, bumpy Wellington street course. I guess they were happier on the fast sweeping European circuits. Interestingly, TWR brought two Jaguar XJS' out in January 1987, he rcieved special dispensation for them to compete, and they went extremely well.

One of the Bastos Rovers now resides in New Zealand, in the South Island, and competes in Historic events. The Bastos livery is completely original. Interestingly, its actually hand painted, not stickers! Heres a photo of it from Ruapuna this year:

http://www.centralmusclecars.co.nz/p.../rnd4_906.html

[one five five]

Originally Posted by Steve Holmes

Only one Rover came to New Zealand in 1985. I can't remember who co-drove with Walkinshaw. I have a photo of the car somewhere so will track it down. It was white, and sponsored for its Kiwi races by NZ magazine 'More'.

Ron Dickson co-drove with Walkinshaw.

[chunterer]

Firstly, Yes Teej, The N Garrett car was a modsaloon/Thundersaloon after it's Grp A life. I'm pretty sure it is the car i've alluded to above. Nigel or someone from CTRC can confirm I hope.

Secondly, Steve, good to have your input. Thats' a very nice pic of a late Bastos car, full front splitter/spoiler suggests an '86 version?

Yeah you're right, it was early '86 that the brown TWR cars were in NZ - but I was sure two were entered. One for Major Tom/Ron Dickson and another for Armine Hahne/Jeff Allam or was it Neville Crichton? I can't remember the report but one of them may not have started?

I'm probably getting a couple of years muddled tbh!

It'll be interesting to know who drove them and where before those 'nice' spray jobs - whether they were BTCC or ETC cars.

BTW, i've also remembered that ex Mini/Metro one make supremo David Carvell drove an RA Potter Vitesse in the '87 BTCC as well. (Possibly the car Mike O Brien used in '86). Now I think that car might have been a TWR car and there were stories that they were trying to get Jeff Allam out in either that one to help sort and maybe even another entry. Not that likelt because there were also rumours that Allam was going to do a few rounds in the early TWR Commodore (a VL, the blue and yellow Herbie Clips liveried car) but instead did the odd ETC event?

Anyway back to the Rovers!!

[KA]

Originally Posted by chunterer

And what about the '84 Bathurst 'Mobil' cars...were they a couple of the Sanyo cars repainted and did they then stay in the Antipodoes for the early '85 New Zealand races, again repainted in Brown 'Peanut Slab' liveries?...
And did they stay over there owned by the likes of Tim Slako (who ran one in a rather shocking pink and green scheme!)

I'm not 100% about this, but I think the Tim Slako car in Australia might be ex-Rouse- possibly the Sawyer-Hoare car? Can't recall where I got that from, (possibly a Bathurst annual?), although I think that car may have been mentioned on here in the past. There was at least one other Rover appeared at Bathurst around 86 or so (John Donnelly I think), but pretty sure that was locally built in Australia, so possibly outside the scope of this thread

A few more randon thoughts/vague memories:

You mentioned the 'German' cars in 84- don't forget they ran on into 86, when Thiim won the DTM- they also made the odd ETC appearance. Think the team name was something like 'Nickel'?
http://www.zandbak.net/classic/86bergischeloewe/004.jpg

A couple of Belgian-entered cars ran in the Spa 24-hours in 88- could these have been ex-TWR?

From memory, one of the 86 TWR cars was sold to Japan -ran at the Fuji race at the end of the year in the hands of Jeff Allam and a local driver, and presumably stayed there- I've got a pic from Autosport somewhere showing it in Bastos livery but with the Japanese sponsor's logos replacing Bastos.

One may have gone to Sweden- According to Frank de Jong's ETCC history website, Kaj Bornebusch, who ran a Sierra in the 88 ETCC, also fielded a Rover at the Nogaro ETCC round that year- (think one of the drivers was his daughter?) and I've got a vague memory that he may have used the car in a couple of 1987 ETCC rounds

Doesn't Jeff Allam own one of the TWR/Bastos cars- think he bought it when the TWR collection was sold off a year or two back?

[chunterer]

Hi KA,

Hadn't realised Rovers ran in Germany for that long? I has Thiim down as winning it in '84 (dunno why?), doing it in '86 with the Turbo's and the like that he would've been up against was a cracking feat.

There was another guy who partnered Manthey in the earlier campaigns, Dieter Selzer? perhaps it was his outfit that entered them.

Be interesting to know if they were built in Germany or built here and then exported?

Yeah now you mention it I recall a TWR car being sold to Japan, think it was the only one though.

I wouldn't be surprised if TWR entered those occasional overseas races (like NZ, Bathurst and Intertec) to attempt to sell them to people in those series?!

The one off British GP Tom entered in '86 was amusing - a demonstration drive so he could show the MSA just what they were missing by chucking his cars out a couple of years previously!

[Splendid Cat]

Tim Slakos was an ex Rouse-built car, which was raced by Sawyer-Hoare in 84as KA states.

Olaf Mantheys car was self built IIRC, and put on a good show early on at Spa 24 in '84. Dieter Selzer was indded his partner.

What about thte TWR built Marlboro car from the French Championship. Schlesser drive one in 84 - what regs was this built to? It had the deep airdam before the Bastos cars did. I know the french regs at the time differed to cater for Jarier's Senator and the BMW 535s were all flared arches, but apart from the airdam the Marlboro car didnt look anythng other than Group A. Can anybody clarify?

[glyn parham]

Good excuse to post some photos of the cars.

Andy Rouse in 1984


Neal McGrath


Olaf Manthey at Spa (1984)


Dennis Leech


And finally, the Gitanes car from 1984


Sadly I have no idea of what happened to any of these cars but am I right in thinking that at least one of the TWR cars ended up in Brian Chatfields collection?

Glyn

[KA]

Originally Posted by glyn parham

Good excuse to post some photos of the cars.

Sadly I have no idea of what happened to any of these cars but am I right in thinking that at least one of the TWR cars ended up in Brian Chatfields collection?
Glyn

Those photos bring back a few memories...

I'm sure you're right about Chatfield having an ex-TWR car- I'm sure I remember seeing him run a Rover in unsignwritten Bastos colours in at least a couple of Thundersaloon races in 1987/8- (probably Silverstone, Mallory or Donington) and chunterer has already mentioned him having at least one BTCC outing in 87

Going a bit off-topic, does anyone have an idea how many ex-BTCC/ETC/DTM cars Chatfield raced over the years- must be a fair number....?

[Jesper OH]

The Kaj Bornebusch car was most probably an ex-TWR car. All white on red 17" Speedline rims, like the TWR-Pacific "sponsored" ETCC entries of 1986. Kaj himself drove this car in Sweden and other nordic contries during 1987, but might have bought the car the year before. A picture from the 1986 Anderstorp-ETCC race suggest 4 Rovers on the grid - 2 Bastos cars and 2 white ones, of which I think one would be the Pacific-car, while the other could be the Bornebusch-car.

There was a third Rover in Australia as well. British Production Saloon Car entry for Barry Robinson/John Jefferey in the 1985 Bathurst race.

The German Rovers were entered by Frieder Nickel of Autotechnich Nickel (ATN), and as far as I know build in Germany, although the engines of at least the '86 car was from TWR. The first car was entered at least as early as 1983 (pre-DTM), with Armin Hahne winning the final round of the Deutsche Rennstrecken-Pokal. For '84 and '85 Austin Rover Deutschland sponsored the DTM effort. Olaf Manthey and Jörg van Ommen was signed as drivers for the first DTM (known as DPM at the time). Van Ommen took three poles from the first six races, but crashed a lot and was subsequently dropped by the team. Dieter Selzer replaced him for the remainder of the season, while Manthey finished 2nd in the championship.
Cut to a one car effort for '85, with Manthey again finishing 2nd, while Walter Mertes drove a few races in the second car.
1986 was a private ATN effort sponsored by Toshiba with Kurt Thiim as driver and eventually champion. Thiim and ATN started the 1987-DTM with this car as well, before their Alfa 75 Turbo was ready, if it ever were! Peter John drove a Vitesse in the '87 Norisring DTM-race, which most probably the ex-Thiim car.

Of the Japanese effort my notes suggests an Austin Rover Japan (sponsored by Dunlop) entry for Suguro Akaike as main driver. Partnered by Jeff Allam for the '86 Fuji 500 and Swede Eje Elgh for the first four races of '87. Kenny Acheson replaced Elgh for the sixth round, while no Rover appears for round 5, which also counted for the World Touring Car Championship. Best result for this six race campain was forth at Sugo on September 20 1987.

Curious about those two Belgian Spa '88-entries. Blue as main color, but not painted/decorated to the same scheme (I have only seen these cars during Eurosport TV reports)

Recently I found an ex-TWR Vitesse on a Spanish web address (which I've at the moment have forgotten) Fits the description of the Bornebusch-car above but with Ronal rims.

Best regards
Jesper

[KA]

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

There was a third Rover in Australia as well. British Production Saloon Car entry for Barry Robinson/John Jefferey in the 1985 Bathurst race.

Yes, a production saloon, rather than full Group A- I think it was originally built by Rouse?

[KA]

Looking back on what we've got so far, have we started to account for at least some of the Bastos/South Pacific ETCC cars?-

one to Japan for the 86 Fuji 500 and the 87 season
one to Sweden for Kaj Bornebusch- maybe now in Spain?
one to Brian Chatfield
one retained by TWR- sold to Jeff Allam when the TWR collection was sold off by the receivers a year or so back
one apparently now in New Zealand- could this be either the ex-Japanese car or the Chatfield one?

Just been looking at the SD1 owners club website and found something interesting- a mention of a TWR/Bastos shell being used to reshell one of the ex-factory rallycars- but was this an actual race shell or one of the show cars?- it also mentions one of the ex-Bathurst 84 Mobil cars....
http://www.roversd1club.net/features...e-ianlines.asp
(scroll about half-way down the page)

[R59]

The Dennis Leech car belonged to Martin Thomas, who also ran a Gp.1 car.
Regarding the issue of Tom "showing the MSA what they were missng" - you mean bent engines? (Volvo rockers with BL logos, over-sized engines, etc...)

Back to Martin Thomas, he still has a Rover hidden away in his barns (at the last count), and being of short armed stock with long pockets, I doubt it'll come out again.
His cars ran in "Letchworth Roofing" colours, and occaisionally got in front of works TWR entries, much to the disgust of Mr Tom.

Here's a factoid... the Gp1 Vitesses occaisionally ran with 4BBL holley's, where they proved better than injection due to the different power curves.

I will make enquiries on the Thomas Rover(s) and report back.

Rob.

[chunterer]

Glyn, love those pics - god I miss those days!

Originally Posted by Splendid Cat

What about thte TWR built Marlboro car from the French Championship. Schlesser drive one in 84 - what regs was this built to? It had the deep airdam before the Bastos cars did. but apart from the airdam the Marlboro car didnt look anythng other than Group A. Can anybody clarify?

That car was prep'd to France's supertourisme or super production rules (bit like Grp 2 i'd guess.) It did have that fron dam/spoiler and you're possibly onto something concerning it's later appearance on the Grp A cars (perhaps that's why TWR got it homologated for the '86 cars and there was some hullabaloo about that as well at the time!).
I'm pretty sure TWR ran a Dayglo/White Grp A spec car in France too as the French National saloon series changed over to Grp A Regs in 1986 I think? . Certainly one appeared in Britain in '87 briefly (see earlier post re Bill Griffin)

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

There was a third Rover in Australia as well. British Production Saloon Car entry for Barry Robinson/John Jefferey in the 1985 Bathurst race.
Curious about those two Belgian Spa '88-entries. Blue as main color, but not painted/decorated to the same scheme (I have only seen these cars during Eurosport TV reports)
Best regards
Jesper

I also think it was a Rouse built prodsaloon - remember seeing it passed on conrod on the BBC Grandstand coverage!

Wondering what shade of blue the '88 Spa cars were that you mention. If they were light blue - could be ex Sanyo or Fleet cars from TWR's BTCC/ETC efforts of '84?

Originally Posted by racing59

The Dennis Leech car belonged to Martin Thomas, who also ran a Gp.1 car.
Regarding the issue of Tom "showing the MSA what they were missng" - you mean bent engines? (Volvo rockers with BL logos, over-sized engines, etc...)

Back to Martin Thomas, he still has a Rover hidden away in his barns. His cars ran in "Letchworth Roofing" colours, and occaisionally got in front of works TWR entries, much to the disgust of Mr Tom.

I will make enquiries on the Thomas Rover(s) and report back.

Rob.

Well Rob, I know what you mean but might be better to be bit less direct! (What about the 'Australian spec' Vitesses or something like that that were homologated?!....allegedly....) I was actually referring to the fact that Tom was always bitter about his cars being thrown out and at a time that the series was lacking depth probably used the opportunity to remind the organisers that they were msssing a couple of decent top class entries - either that or a significant gesture of the 'take that' variety.

Was Dennis Leech's car the same from Grp 1 through to Grp A then? Interesting if it was - but ceertainly the one he pioneered quite well for a time in '88 seemed to be much more developed than his earlier Grp A car - it must have been to get near the Cossies and M3's?

The Letchworth livery must have been the one that Skid Scarborugh campaigned in '87. Certainly will be interesting to discover which car Martin Thomas still has tucked away - I suspect it'll be a late Grp A spec car?

[Happy Snapper]

I know Dennis Leech quite well from GT racing next time I see him I'll ask what happened to the car.

[terence]

Hope this to be of some help,A] Martin Thomas, Dont think he still has it, certainly not when I last visited him a couple of months ago. B] Brian Chatfield]My ex employer ,Arthur Carter ex Holly Enterprises Arthur bought the "Bastos"from Brian ,when it arrived it had been repainted in the Esso colours.We stripped it back to bare and whilst doing so came across "Jean Louie Schlesser" on the roof.We had been told that it was one of the TWR Bastos cars so thats how i repainted it,[masking off "Bastos" was an absolute pain,but well worth the effort,I did nothing to the roof panel,it was in good enough order not to worry about it soas not to have to rewrite the Jean Louie script again.Unfortunatly I have no idea as to the where abouts of the car now.I think maybe I could find out in the near future,as and when I,ll let you know.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by terence bower

Hope this to be of some help,A] Martin Thomas, Dont think he still has it, certainly not when I last visited him a couple of months ago. B] Brian Chatfield]My ex employer ,Arthur Carter ex Holly Enterprises Arthur bought the "Bastos"from Brian ,when it arrived it had been repainted in the Esso colours.We stripped it back to bare and whilst doing so came across "Jean Louie Schlesser" on the roof.We had been told that it was one of the TWR Bastos cars so thats how i repainted it,[masking off "Bastos" was an absolute pain,but well worth the effort,I did nothing to the roof panel,it was in good enough order not to worry about it soas not to have to rewrite the Jean Louie script again.Unfortunatly I have no idea as to the where abouts of the car now.I think maybe I could find out in the near future,as and when I,ll let you know.

Thanks Terence this is excellent additional info. I notice you've expanded your thoughts in this thread

Please see my questions and therories in the archive as well!!

Martin Thomas ran Mike O Brien and Neil McGrath in 1986/87 I think.
Neil raced the ex Gordon Spice car which ended up in Skid Scarborough's hands in 1987.

I'm fairly sure that O Brien's was an ex TWR car and have a feeling that this car is the one you know of that was 'restored.'??

This car might have been the sister car to the one Dave Carvell drove in 1987;the 2 cars possibly being the 1984 Sanyo pairing in BTCC that were driven by Tony Pond and Lovett/'Schles'.

[terence]

As I have already stated in the Chassis History thead,the Chatfield Bastos car was in the Carter collection in Norfolk,I also did a small amount of work on the Bornebusch car whilst Carter owned it,again purchased from Brian, this car was indeed "plain white" with fluoresent red wheels. It was built to the same spec as the other TWR cars,when we received it ,it was in surprisingly good order,not requiring much doing at all. This car was sold on after a couple of years but unfortunatly I cant remember the buyers name.

[ian.stewart]

Just a bit on the side, When I bought some bits for my Rover build, a fella I went to see had some raw un machined blocks sitting in his garage, I know what a Rover Stiff block looks like, and thise were Not Standard castings, the valley webs inside the engines were about twice the thickness of standard as were the main cap webs, I wish I had bought one now,
About the only thing I know about one of the cars spares package was being sold off, may have been TWR ETCC as I bought a Wilkinshaw ETCC cam from the company, for the life of me I cant remember the name of them, but they were in the middle of the Norfolk Fens behind a farm, Rovertec? seems to ring a bell.
Ian

[corliss]

Originally Posted by ian.stewart

Just a bit on the side, When I bought some bits for my Rover build, a fella I went to see had some raw un machined blocks sitting in his garage, I know what a Rover Stiff block looks like, and thise were Not Standard castings, the valley webs inside the engines were about twice the thickness of standard as were the main cap webs, I wish I had bought one now,
About the only thing I know about one of the cars spares package was being sold off, may have been TWR ETCC as I bought a Wilkinshaw ETCC cam from the company, for the life of me I cant remember the name of them, but they were in the middle of the Norfolk Fens behind a farm, Rovertec? seems to ring a bell.
Ian

That would be Ray Webb, V8 Development`s ( formerly RoverTec)
The blocks you saw were probably "Birmalloy" castings, not the usual AE casts. They did have bigger webs. The race blocks were 4 bolt main`s and divorced oil gallery, I.E no oil feed to lifter gallery, solid lifter use only. They were actually available through A.R spare part`s, last price I saw when I worked for them was £2,200 bare in 1986!
Skip

[BianchiBennett]

Hi all,
Very late on this thread and first post so please excuse any mistakes.

Via Lois & Alex Dowsett (children of Phil), came across this on Twitter. Asked Stuart Hall (son of Pete) if it was the GpA version and he said it was.

Andy

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by BianchiBennett

Hi all,
Very late on this thread and first post so please excuse any mistakes.

Via Lois & Alex Dowsett (children of Phil), came across this on Twitter. Asked Stuart Hall (son of Pete) if it was the GpA version and he said it was.

Andy

Great stuff! That's Andy Rouse and Nigel Garrett in pic I think?
The car has been restored to 1984 BSCC spec and you can see from the pic on the wall what it looked like when it last raced!

Looking forward to seeing it racing again, (Oulton Gold Cup?) let alone the mooted Goodwood appearance in the summer. ...

[chunterer]

Just thought I'd do a quick add up of cars known to be in action or owned in storage.

TWR 001 (Marlboro) R Postins. Racing in historic touring cars.
TWR 002 (Hepolite) K Clarke. In process of rebuild and hoped to be on track again in 2015.
TWR 005 (Marlboro) A Dippie. Near completion in New Zealand.
TWR 007/012 (Gitanes) In Japan, still to be located.
TWR 010 (Fleet) Chassis stamp/plate and parts owned by K Clarke with intention to build a car up in future
TWR 011 (Mobil Bathurst) Currently in Portugal?
TWR 014 (Bastos but likely to be reliveried to Istel) A Scott purchased from B Kershaw late 2013 and now in NZ.
TWR 015 (Bastos) Shell in hands of D Holder?
TWR 017 (Bastos) chassis was written off but lot of the main parts/running gear in Chris/Charlie Williams's Bastos liveried ex Dennis Leech car
TWR 018 (Bastos) A Dippie. Racing in NZ historics.
TWR 019 (Bastos) B Smeets. Sometimes racing in UK and European historics.
TWR 020 (Bastos) T Morley. Yet to be seen in UK historic racing....

Also:

Nigel Garrett's ICS Rouse car. Now totally restored and expected to be seen at Goodwood FOS and maybe Oulton Gold Cup this year.

Please can anyone add any other info?

[DPUZEY]

Just for completness:

TWR 003 Computervision rally car under restoration in UK
TWR 006 Daily Mirror/Unipart rally car in UK