Mullers driving standards!

Teletubby · 7 May 2003, 10:43 (Ref:592179)

Now I wouldn't call myself a fan of Jason Plato but I am now beginning to think that his run-ins with Plato were more 50-50 than he was given credit for. Muller appears to have no hesitation in punting other drivers and yet nothing approaching the same level of vitriol is seen here! Is this just another case of the Brits knocking a successful Brit or am I missing something?

KPC · 7 May 2003, 12:50 (Ref:592333)

I agree. I've always thought Muller was a fair driver but after Mondello I am less than impressed. It was to me as if all the non-Vauxhall teams were just flies in the way and he didn't care who got swiped on his way to the top.... or perhaps he's just fed up of being Mr Nice Guy and ending up the bridesmaid for it. That said, I think he was more deserving of the 2001 title, whereas Thommo won last year fair and square. The Thommo nudge on Muller in the season finale was fairdos after Muller's well out of order dive on Druids at Brands. If it wasn't for that Thommo would have been the hands down winner.

I've said elsewhere in these threads that Reid has been a bit of a bully for a few years now but this year seems to have so far settled back into some good fair driving. Perhaps Muller has taken his place? Watch this space....

Craner Curves · 7 May 2003, 16:37 (Ref:592552)

What on earth are you talking about? Muller was being shoved all over the place by Hughes at Brands.

KPC · 7 May 2003, 19:05 (Ref:592704)

True. Hughes was having a good go at everyone but I didn't see him touch anyone from where I was standing. Although Muller did return towards the end of race one with a dirty car with bits hanging off... take it that was Hughes then. Still doesn't pardon Muller for recent exploits though does it. But to be fair, since Mondello, Thommo and Neal have joined the stock car brigade also...

Chigley · 7 May 2003, 19:20 (Ref:592719)

Is the BTCC going back to 1990's standards of driving. If they are I'm going to watch banger racing its the same but cheaper. (Not that I pay for tickets, but its the point that counts).

touringcarnut · 7 May 2003, 20:24 (Ref:592799)

Its what its all about! a bit of rubbing here and there, i long for the early 90s days of racing!.

If i want to see a completely non-contact (no action) race i'd watch F1. The cars are tons more exciting than the late 90s, when it was all aerodynamics-yawn.

AndyF · 8 May 2003, 07:30 (Ref:593146)

Quote:

Originally posted by Chigley
Is the BTCC going back to 1990's standards of driving. If they are I'm going to watch banger racing its the same but cheaper. (Not that I pay for tickets, but its the point that counts).

I agree Chigley. The 90s had some close racing and good grids, but the drivers couldn't seem to drive without hitting anyone for more than 10 seconds.

EvilPumpkin · 8 May 2003, 07:46 (Ref:593166)

I have to be honest, I don't think Muller is any worse than the rest of them - I've lost count of the amount of contacts I've seen over the last 2 BTCC events. I can think of a couple of production car drivers that appear to be under the impression they're in a demolition derby as well!

Rambo · 8 May 2003, 08:07 (Ref:593184)

Matt neal was closing fast on O'Neill, went for a gap, and the gap disaapeared. O'Neill didn't turn in on him deliberately - he just plain didn't know he was there. He was so unaware of what was going on behind him I couldn't believe it when he was interviewed. Unlike Muller and Plato at Silverstone where Muller did it on Purpose. Jason might not have made much of an effort to avoid contact, but there's a big difference between deliberately causing a collision and a racing incident.

Consider Schumi's penalty for causing a first-corner crash the other day - it was a mistake, not deliberate - yet the "victim" in the collision made at least 3 driving mistakes in the race and got away scot-free. Why? Because he didn't hit anyone - though not through his efforts, but by good luck and their avoidance.

This isn't like the era where the Nissans have re-inforced bumpers, but if you put wings and open wheels on them, you still get collisions - that's just racing.

If it comes to the stage where you get a penalty if you touch someone else you won't get racing because people will be too afraid to try and pass.

Rambo · 8 May 2003, 08:08 (Ref:593186)

P.S. - I've been slagging off Muller for years and getting nothing but abuse for it. Glad I'm not alone though.

manicmarshal · 8 May 2003, 17:57 (Ref:593803)

I dont think anyone is innocent of non-contact in the current BTCC. they are all as good or as bad as each other, depending on your viewpoint. I dont think anyone needs to be slagged off as they are all doing it!! several of the drivers said it was going to be 'no more Mr nice guy'. Paul will be everyones favourite until he does the same. Personally I think all four races have been very interesting and very close racing. I'm enjoying the championship so far.

kestrel · 8 May 2003, 20:48 (Ref:593970)

Quote:

Originally posted by Rambo
P.S. - I've been slagging off Muller for years and getting nothing but abuse for it. Glad I'm not alone though.

No, you are definitely NOT alone Rambo.

Muller has been a bully for a long time, but sneeky with it and always blames the other driver.
Perhaps now people are starting to realise what 'raw deals' Cleland and Plato were given.

Lorna · 8 May 2003, 20:59 (Ref:593983)

Quote:

Originally posted by manicmarshal
I dont think anyone is innocent of non-contact in the current BTCC. they are all as good or as bad as each other, depending on your viewpoint. I dont think anyone needs to be slagged off as they are all doing it!! several of the drivers said it was going to be 'no more Mr nice guy'. Paul will be everyones favourite until he does the same. Personally I think all four races have been very interesting and very close racing. I'm enjoying the championship so far.

Couldn't agree more! It does get a case of "you hit me so I'm going to hit back". I can't say its right or wrong but what I do know is that BTCC is exciting! I don't want to see a procession of cars going round. I want to see them take risks on overtaking. There has been some dodgy moves but doesn't that make them human? Okay, they are professionals but still human! We will all be biased in our comments about drivers because you have your favourites and you don't. I can easily rare up at one driver for a dodgy maneouver and applaud another because I'll like one and not the other. Tis the way it goes

krt917 · 9 May 2003, 11:41 (Ref:594435)

I think a distinction needs to be made between a legitimate overtaking attempt that goes wrong and a move that is clearly more bullying and deliberately incident-inducing, and there seems to have been too much of the latter recently. Touring cars are entertaining because they are close and can overtake - both of which can be achieved without stock-car style antics.

touringcarnut · 9 May 2003, 12:33 (Ref:594472)

Lol! i'm just rembering Frank Sytner!now was he always a fair racer?

It's always going to be close and i don't remember a race without at least one dodgy incident where someone comes off worst. I don't think that what Matt did was right, but its not as if its just him whose run into others. I'm sure that if he does it again there will be punishment. Plato 2001 for instance.

Rambo · 9 May 2003, 14:37 (Ref:594637)

Anyone else see him in the ETCC a couple of years ago? The Alfa punts him off on purpose at Silverstone and got a pat on the back for it. Matt struggles at a later race with a brake-balance problem causing him to lock up and hit an Alfa and it's an instant black flag...

If Matt made a habit of it, I wouldn't back him up. He'd have been robbed if he hadn't won it anyway - Paul simply got lucky whereas Matt's bad luck (the dodgy RF) seemingly struck again.

I was waiting for the firing squad when it happened. I mean, last year he got a stop and go for missing a patch of paint the size of a 10p piece by half an inch lining up on the starting grid!

Rambo · 9 May 2003, 14:45 (Ref:594644)

I remember Frank Sytner though, specifically one incident where he was purple in the face from shouting a lot of stuff that was bleeped out on the TV... Ah, those were the days - black flags for bumpers hanging off were common every weekend. Can't pass the guy in front? Tap his rear corner. If he doesn't spin you'll loosen his bumper and get him black flagged.

Smokin Jo was the cause of a few shunts too, as I recall. I thought it was because he was too short to see over the steering wheel, myself!

Anyone see that top gear where the touring car drivers took a road version of their car round the track? The only guy who got anywhere near the touring car laptimes was that BMW guy (Soper, wasn't it?) and his tires looked like that shot from Days of Thunder afterwards...

Craner Curves · 9 May 2003, 15:13 (Ref:594671)

Smokin Jo is to me, the epitome of a touring car driver. All out tailsliding, on the limit action driving.

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