Thunder Saloons

[Lewis]

I know this is meant to be for modern series, but i think people have forgotton Thunder Saloons. What did you think of it? Do you think it should return? What are your favourite Thunder Saloon memories and who were the best drivers?

[Tony_Simpson]

I am/was a great fan of Thunder Saloons, if a little young to remeber them fully (only got interested in 1990). The races were like the British GT cars now, 45mins with a driver change, with big power (600bhp+ V8, or cosworth power) in a steel saloon body shell. The small class was for BMW M3's, upto 2.4 litre if I remember right. I think the BRSCC in the end ruined it when they scrapped the small class, thus increasing the cost to design build and test a new car to over £100,000 (The resession (spelling) hit around then as well). They then tried to claw it back with introducing the small class again a couple of years later, with two 20 lap races, but did not get the race numbers. Then put the series with the Modified Saloons. Nice site of a big 7.1 litre V8 racing a mini here.

I have several memories of the racing. The Pete Stevens Carlton, would have to be my favorite as it was winning races a good 8-9 years after it was first built. There are not many cars around now, a Calibra that Richard Wood owns, the Honda Prelude Cosworth of Rod Birley and maybe one in the Northan Sports and Saloon series. Does any one else know of any more cars around?

Remeber John Cleland won the series several times. With John and Pete Stevens, and Bod Birley I would say that they were the top drivers. There are alot more who drove in the series, but over time these were at the top year after year (ok, John went to Touring cars in 1990, but..).

Favorite memory, The site and sound of the field racing for one. Also in one race a 7.1 litre Ford V8 set the fastest lap in a wet race at Mallory Park, even with a 4wd Escort winning the race. That is something nice to remember.

Will the series come back. No it will not, the Formula Saloon series has took over now and is far to established to have a rival series. The Formula Saloons do allow the thunder saloon car to race, but they have to be limited to 500bhp or so (same for everyone ). The Rod Birley Honda still wins races now even against modern Super Tourers.

[Tony_Simpson]

Here are the site that I know of that have Thunder saloons involved with:

http://www.hotrodbirley.care4free.net/

http://www.ric-wood.com/

www.formulasaloons.com

As you could have guessed from above, I am a bit of a fan.

Below should be a picture of a Thunder Saloon race at Brands.

[Tony_Simpson]

Also this picture below:, and yes it is a DTM Mercedes behind the Calibra. (Ok this is a formula Saloon race but it is still a nice car)

[redshoes]

I remember watching the series a few times many years back but don't know much more about it. That big V8 Carlton sticks in my mind, as does the Stars and Stripes Manta.

I'll move this from BTCC to National/Club Forum, I suspect you will get a better response there.

[Stephen Green]

I was always a big fan of Thunder Saloons as well, and remember Pete Stevens in the Bertec Carlton with great affection. Also Rob Birley and wasn't it Mick Quaife in the 4 wheel drive Escort, an ex rallycross car if I'm not mistaken?

[KA]

Originally posted by Stephen Green
I was always a big fan of Thunder Saloons as well, and remember Pete Stevens in the Bertec Carlton with great affection. Also Rob Birley and wasn't it Mick Quaife in the 4 wheel drive Escort, an ex rallycross car if I'm not mistaken?

I'm not 100% sure either, but you could be right about Mick Quaife's Escort may well have been one of his rallycross cars converted to a circuit racer-he ran it both in Thundersaloons, and later in Britsh GTs

The funny thing is, he also raced a 4x4 Sierra in Thundersaloons- and that got converted into a rallycross car...

[Rod Birley]

It's great to see there are still Thundersaloon fans out there. The where abouts of most of the cars is a mystery, although I can shed some light on the Mick Quaife Sierra & Escort.

The Sierra was originally mine, built by Milton Motors with a GAA V6 engine. Later this was changed for a Rouse built Cosworth Turbo. Mick bought that car and changed it to 4 wheel drive later selling it to Warick Barnes for rallycross. Mick then used a 4wd Escort with a RS200 engine and turbo. He and I did share it in a coupe of GT races after the demise of Thunderslaoons but the car was not really competitive against what were then GT1 prototypes.

Hopefully Mick will come and play in the Formula Saloons (now that his GT car is no longer eligible) as he still has the Escort. Formula Saloons needs a few more big banger V8 cars but they are expensive to run. I think the crowds would come back and I still have fond memories of 20,000 people turning up at Brands Hatch and nearly 15,000 at Oulton Park.

Although there was intense rivalry and a bit of media needle it never resulted in bashing and crashing on the track. Most spectators were just in awe at some of the creations. Isn't this a vital ingredient for motor sport?

As has already been spotted I do have a web site. My wife Sue trys to maintain it and admits she has had little time to do anything about it for this season coming. However she is on a mission and hopes to get somthing done by then end of this month. It would be really great to get your feed back and to even see you at some of the meetings.

I'm so glad there are fans of thundersall=oons out ther it was ba far mt=y most interesting series, I only hope that if we get sponsorhip we can enjoy Formual Saloon as much. Gotany contacts?

[Maisie]

Hi Rod - welcome aboard!!

I'll admit to being too young to remember Thundersaloons first time round, but any big, beefy tin-top is great in my book I saw your car at Brands last season - you were sharing a garage with an equally-awesome Carlton, as I recall - great stuff! You're right about the FSaloons needing some more real muscle, but it's a great series to watch as it is. I hope the series will grow and get the sort of recognition and popularity that it deserves

Stick around and tell us how it's going - we'll check out the website too. How about being a forum affiliate and linking in to this site? Maybe even bring some more FSaloon drivers along. If there's one thing the population of 10-10ths is good at, it's overwhelming support, and we're good at getting our favourite drivers and series noticed

Once again, thanks for joining us, and good luck this year

[Tony_Simpson]

Nice to see you here Rod. You mentioned that the V8 cars are expensive to run, but how much compared to a Super Tourer. I know that one of them cost around £15000+ for a season, and an engine rebuild is around £6000+. Also how would this compare to your Honda and Escort?

Maisie, the Carlton you are talking about is, I think the Andrew MacKenzie Opel Monza, ex-DTM car. Does that have a V8 in now or the origional straight-six?

I have been saying in other forums that more muscle cars should be encouraged. It is also a pity that not many people seem to be building there own cars, Dave Brodie did last year. I know it takes time to do, and get reliability and performance.

Hopefully Rod, you can get sponsership for the season, and give the Super Tourers something to worry about,

Hopefully I will be able to get to both Donington rounds as a minimum this year (Final year of degree, plus something else very interesting could happen, what out for info, means not alot of time), the August date is over my birthday, so I might have a bit of a hang over then . Anyway good luck for next year, and all Formula Saloon runners (yes I know it is early but.....)

[KA]

One of the classic car magazines- think it's Classics- has got an article on Thundersaloons this month- including some photos from around 1988, with Honda Legends and 'Stars & Stripes' Mantas evidence amongst others...

[KA]

BTW- does anyone else remember this one from Thundersaloons in 1989?- I'm sure there was a Sierra powered by a Porsche flat-6 turbo, (possibly as used in a Group C Porsche 956...)- I think it may only have raced once, at Brands Hatch early in the season before the project ran into money troubles.

[Stephen Green]

Rod!!!

Welcome to ten-tenths. Well as a regular Brands marshal can I say a quick 'thank you' to Rod for his unending support and help at training days etc. He was last seen on Saturday representing the local residents of West Kingsdown at Brands and also fighting the marshals corner at the end of the day (remember Rod?). Now you know why he gets such a good reception from all the local marshals when he races.

Why not pop into the marshals forum at some time Rod?

Regards,

Stephen

[MH Fan]

Whatever happened to Derek Tyndall's Ford 'Escat'? A Jag V8 engined Escort. Raced in about 1993.

[JTL392]

Originally Posted by MH Fan

Whatever happened to Derek Tyndall's Ford 'Escat'? A Jag V8 engined Escort. Raced in about 1993.

a bit late but I've just got through the thread,I've quite a few pit shots from the early 90s including shots of the Tyndal Escort after it had a coming together with a (I think) Sierra after leaving the pits,unfortunately I don't have a clue about putting pics on the forum,I could scan them and email them for someone else to do it

[JTL392]

I've just checked the photo's,the other cars involved in the shunt were Stuart Jackson and Danny Morris,Aug 93 it happened during practice

[carrera]

Have had a couple of enquiries about Rolling Thunder CD.

The extremely good value CD is still available and indeed one was posted 1st class in its clam shell case wrapped in a padded envelope to Sheffield this morning.

[Tony_Simpson]

I think he tried to turn the driveline side of things in a self bulit 2-seater sports car. The car did not do anything so I guess the project was scrapped.

I think the engine was a Jag XJ220 based one as well, but I could be mistaken.

[Paul V]

I do remember the Escat from when it ran at Castle Combe in the Special GTs, I spent many a time doing noise tests on it as the exhaust system went from 'mk I' (ground shaking ear blasting) to at least a 'mk IX'.

It was running a XJ220 engine - 3.5l twin turbo V6 and was (according to his mechanic) putting out over 800bhp. It was a wonderful brute of a machine tho'.

[RollingThunder]

Hi I am the man responsible for the Classics feature, and my first publication was a photocopied newsletter called Rolling Thunder that concentrated on the series, we published intermittently between 1989 and '92.

It's great to see so much interest in Thundersaloons, so many years after its demise. Personally I feel that this kind of series is the one thing UK motorsport is lacking today. Bring back the Thunder!

And a message to Rod (Birley). good to hear from you and glad to see you're still winning races - I watched you in a winter clubbie at Brands in November but with family in tow didn't have time to come and say hello.

All the best

Andrew Charman

[Rod Birley]

The Sierra Porsche was a joint project between Terry Nicholls and myself. Gartrac built the body shell and grafted a Porsche Flat 6 962 turbo engine - air cooled. The air-cooled factor proved to be a problem, which manifested itself dramatically at Oulton Park.

Coming over Clay Hill just before Druids corner the car became airborne and shot across the track. The downdraft from the air cooler fan was causing a build up pressure under the front-engined car. Fortunately I somehow avoided a major incident.

Barry Williams joined me in the car at Snetterton and we actually led until a gearbox problem forced us out near the end. At Zandvoort it was the fastest car down the old long front straight, topping 180mph, but it was not quite so nimble around the twisty bits. Both Terry and I did not have the resources to carry on with the project, which ground to a halt halfway through the season.

The rolling shell went to Rob Cox and is now owned by Michael Bloomfield who campaigns the car with a V8 engine in the Europa Northern Sports & Saloons. The engine went to a Porsche collector in Sweden, a former bank manager. How ironic!

Another bit of info', the ex-Stuart Moreton Ford Escort V8 which only raced a couple of times is set to re-appear. A driver from the Ford Modified series has bought it and HT Racing here in Kent, will be preparing it for Formula Saloons.

With regard to running costs...my own experience is just with Cosworth engines. These are prepared by Harvey Gibb at S.C.S near Peterborough. He also does Steve Papworth's engine.

Rebuilds depend on how hard the engine has been driven and at what turbo boost. As an average its about £3000. Tyres are the next big cost. Simply, if you want to win you need to buy new ones each meeting this could mean over £800 a set. Transmission rebuilds again depend on how brutal you are, probably budget £2000 a year. Then there is entry fees (approx' £150 per entry), fuel, travel costs etc... All in you are looking at well over £1500 for a competitive showing.

Of course we try to save by not buying new tyres every race, doing very little testing and only competing at southern tracks. We couldn't do most of what we do without the enthusiastic, voluntary services of the mechanics John & Stewart.

I have rummaged around the loft and found a picture of the Sierra, hope you like it. We also found one of the engine but don't know how to post two pictures in one message so maybe next time.

Sue has finally got to grips with the new software she purchased to do the Website with and has at last posted it. She says she will put on the link to this site but she is completely fed up with doing it so it can wait a short while.

[Tony_Simpson]

Is the ex-Stuart Moreton Ford Escort V8 still running a V8 in Formula Saloons this year, if so yipppee, another 'proper' engined car to race all the FWD ones.

I guess that not many more ex-Thundersaloons are around any more, I guess they were split and sold as parts. It is also a pity that the ones that are still around and not racing atm, can not find new owners and come out to play.

If it cost around the same to run a 500bhp car and a 300bhp, super tourer then I would much rather drive the 500bhp one, as it is rwd, and I guess alot more fun

The 800bhp mentioned for the Escat is not the biggest amount of power a thundersaloon had. I believe that Andrew Chester in his Pontiac had 1000bhp, but reduced it to around 600 or so and went seconds quicker. (Source CCC from 98 or so). That 1000bhp must have sounded great.

[Gareth Walker]

Great to see so much intrest in this formeronship, it would be great to see more of them running in Formula Saloons, currently boasting DTM and Aussie V8 cars!

[Gareth Walker]

The Formula Saloons needs more Turbo and V8 cars to break the Super Touring domination over the last few years. The spectacle of the ex Thundersaloon cars would add alot to the championship.The Ric Wood Holden is a prime example. More pictures being sent in would be great, to put names to the cars, if any one has any good ones out there.
Look out for a Ford Falcon, Omega V8 and improved Cosworths I.E Broadie for FS in 2002, perhaps bringing back some of the old Thunder Saloon magic!!!

[Tony_Simpson]

Here is a picture of the Rick Wood Holden