[Driver] Ricciardo

[Skam85]

So he's 6 races into his career now, and starting to get the better of Liuzzi, his only real measuring stick. Outqualified him in the past two races, and even finished ahead of him in Singapore with the front wing replacement.

So how do we think he's going? Has he done enough to oust Buemi/Alguersuari (IMO Buemi) at STR next year? The last 5 races will be crucial, but I think he's definitely on the right track.

[mac]

How could you ever know in that HRT thing...?

He is starting to get the better of Liuzzi in qualifying on a regular basis, and he has had a few decent runs in the races...

But who knows what any of this means? The HRTs are in such a different league, with such a variety of issues that's impossible to truly know how he's going.

I suspect we won't have a reasonable picture until he jumps back in a Red Bull or a Toro Rosso in testing during the off-season.

[TomVanRompaey]

He surely is in the hotseat to take over from Buemi. Algersuari has shown himself as a racer who can pick up points when missing out on Q2.

[steve_r]

I dont get to see much of the HRTs unless they are first car out in qualifying or being lapped. However from the very little I have seen, I rekon he could be worth a spot in the Torro Rosso at some point in the near future.
The difficulty is, which one of the current Torro Rosso drivers do you drop to bring Ricciardo in? JA and SB are both young and both performing at a very similiar level.

[Mekola]

Alguersuari and Buemi entered both often in the points but Jaime has at his expense Spanish sponsorship that would favour to retain him in the team. Thus Buemi is likely to be ousted by Ricciardo in Toro Rosso.

[Jacques Rabbit]

I never rated Daniel Ricciardo as much as most, and I still don't, but he's been competent at HRT. Not impressed, not unimpressed. I would have expected more of him in World Series by Renault, personally, and that alone makes me wonder. Unless his team there isn't that good?

I guess what I'm trying to say is nothing at all: I see no reason to do or not do anything with him next year. I wouldn't be against him getting an STR seat, but I also wonder what happens if Vergne wins the WSR title...

[bella]

Originally Posted by Jacques Rabbit

I never rated Daniel Ricciardo as much as most, and I still don't, but he's been competent at HRT. Not impressed, not unimpressed. I would have expected more of him in World Series by Renault, personally, and that alone makes me wonder. Unless his team there isn't that good?

I guess what I'm trying to say is nothing at all: I see no reason to do or not do anything with him next year. I wouldn't be against him getting an STR seat, but I also wonder what happens if Vergne wins the WSR title...

my thoughts exactly - i actually think vergne is a better all round driver. he's certainly more eloquent and interesting when he's not being asked awkward questions he can't answer about red bull. he also hasn't stitched himself up in the same way that ricciardo has done at least once a season.

there's nothing wrong with isr, they nearly won the title last year and if anyone's going to suggest that ricciardo isn't as competant as esteban guerrieri (who in that very drive, took it to carlin's aleshin and ricciardo at tech1) then well, that's an interesting thought. i just don't think ricciardo's heart was in it - he didn't have a genuine opportunity to win the title once it became clear he'd be missing at least 2 of the 9 events for f1 obligations. then again, if we take guerrieri last year, he missed 3 races (monaco and hungary) and still went at it like his life depended on it...

wickens is a fantastic driver, and if he took the title he'd richly deserve it too, but i really want vergne to win purely to see what red bull are going to do too.

[OZ_HCR32]

Originally Posted by bella

- he didn't have a genuine opportunity to win the title once it became clear he'd be missing at least 2 of the 9 events for f1 obligations...

That is a point that most people miss. It is a concern of mine that he isnt so hungry for results that he get out there and win every race he was entered in to prove he is the pick of the litter and worthy of the STR Friday testing and HRT race seat.

But, nothing is ever that easy in competitive motorsport and i think missing rounds, driving for two F1 teams in 2011....well WSR was always going to take a back seat and not be his main focus when away from the track...something no doubt it was for the others

Re his form at HRT...the car simply isnt reliable enough to tell. He has outqualified Luizzi, but with the cars being what they are you just dont know if its the driver or a small gremlin with the car. Indeed over a race distance if you pay attention to their respective lap times it seems Dan is generally on a better pace then Luizzi, but with so many cars lapping them and affecting their pace even this is difficult to confirm.

So from his year, I think all you can really take from it is he hasnt made any silly mistakes and binned or looped the HRT. His race pace is improving with experience in traffic management.

The biggest indicator for me was his Friday testing performances in the STR. For a tyre that is meant to be difficult to turn on and get endurance from, his pace over a single lap and over a long run was very good compared to the other car. So he definitely hasnt thrown away the opportunity, it seems he is doing everything expected of him...but it would be nice to see him be the first HRT driver to take it to the Virgins like he almost did in Singapore...that will start to prove his pace and race craft over Luizzi

[bella]

Originally Posted by OZ_HCR32

That is a point that most people miss. It is a concern of mine that he isnt so hungry for results that he get out there and win every race he was entered in to prove he is the pick of the litter and worthy of the STR Friday testing and HRT race seat.

this is something that worries me too. silverstone race 2 in 2010 he wasn't aware enough of the race around him to notice he was being hunted down, and duly lost the lead. he said afterwards that he didn't really know what had happened. there was nothing wrong with the car, or the tyres he'd had replaced in the pitstop, but he lost a substantial lead. actually i think part of the problem there was that he was too honest in the post-race press conference - he could have easily made something up and nobody would have noticed!

he's put in some very classy performances, and no doubt is a very quick driver but sometimes... you wonder. in a way he was lucky that vergne's fr3.5 drive fell through last year because the pace that vergne showed in testing and at the other end of the season when he replaced hartley was very impressive. in that respect, and certainly looking at the situation red bull have on their hands now, you can see why they chose to say "thanks, but no" to hartley.

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by Jacques Rabbit

I never rated Daniel Ricciardo as much as most, and I still don't, but he's been competent at HRT. Not impressed, not unimpressed. I would have expected more of him in World Series by Renault, personally, and that alone makes me wonder. Unless his team there isn't that good?

I guess what I'm trying to say is nothing at all: I see no reason to do or not do anything with him next year. I wouldn't be against him getting an STR seat, but I also wonder what happens if Vergne wins the WSR title...

I think if Riccardo was out of the Red Bull program, he'd be doing much better this year. As it is, he's been pulled in all kinds of directions, and had to relearn cars all year, and even though it might only take a lap or so in the car, trying to relearn the competition every week might hurt his results as well. Of course, being in Red Bull is probably the reason he is where he is.

[p-matt]

Of course, if STR are bought over goodness knows who will be in those seats next year.

But assuming it is still the Red Bull junior team, it will probably be Alguersuari and Ricciardo with Vergne keeping them both on their toes.

[strider]

He's going to have to have a very good season with Toro Rosso next year (assuming that's how it goes) if he's going to be #2 at Red Bull in 2013.

[OZ_HCR32]

What is significant about next season? I don't see both being in F1, and I certainly don't see them as team mates next season.

[Wild Dog]

As some others have said it's difficult to say because the HRT are so bad.

But if he should replace one of the STR's it should be Buemi. Alguersuari have developed a lot this season I think. Maybe Ricciardo and Buemi should change a bit in the STR next year?

[Mr V]

Finished behind karthikeyan. Yes he had one more pit stop, but he has more car/race experience of late so if he wants to be taken seriously in F1 then that shouldn't be happening.

[MCWB]

Originally Posted by Mr V

Finished behind karthikeyan. Yes he had one more pit stop, but he has more car/race experience of late so if he wants to be taken seriously in F1 then that shouldn't be happening.

So making an extra, unscheduled pitstop shouldn't be happening? I agree. He outpaced Karthikeyan handsomely in the first stint, which is much as you'd expect.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by MCWB

So making an extra, unscheduled pitstop shouldn't be happening? I agree. He outpaced Karthikeyan handsomely in the first stint, which is much as you'd expect.

Vettel could have made an unscheduled pitstop and still finished agead of Webber

My point remains though, if he wants to get on in F1 he needs to be beating a driver like Karthikeyan comfortably, and doing enough in case something goes wrong. Had he finished behind Liuzzi, then ok - acceptable, but not Narain.

[mac]

Originally Posted by Mr V

My point remains though, if he wants to get on in F1 he needs to be beating a driver like Karthikeyan comfortably, and doing enough in case something goes wrong. Had he finished behind Liuzzi, then ok - acceptable, but not Narain.

I was watching this contest quite closely... Ricciardo was miles ahead for the first part of the race... Stayed ahead of a number of drivers for quite some time...

Then, around the time of his stop, he seemed to lose over a minute - he seemed to go from being about 30s ahead of Narain, to being 50s behind in the space of a lap.

And then, despite having a poor car for the seconf half of the race, was catching Narain at about 1.5 to 2 seconds a lap - and D'Ambrosio at one stage for that matter, at about half a second per lap...

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Watching him in FR3.5 there's no question there's potential but as usual Red Bull are doing their best to botch it. This has been a pointless halfway exercise all year. Not winning the World Series title last year was a small failure and I think he needed to focus on sealing the deal this year for his mental development more than anything else. The F1 Friday drives should have been extra candy, not the main focus of the season. With the title wrapped up, he could then race the final four GP's as a just reward. Seven less GP's in a HRT won't do much difference in a few years time.

Red Bull seems to underestimate the effect of actually getting those titles in your junior career. They've done the same mistake with Alguesuari, and will probably do the same with Vergne. I think they'll be lesser drivers for it.

(This does not apply to Buemi, who was probably never going to win a GP2 title)

[maximus]

His car wasn't right during the second stint either apparently. Either way as MCWB said he was over half a second a lap faster in the first, and also didn't tip Trulli in to a spin either.

[strider]

I'd put it the other way around. Narain did really well to be so close to him in qualifying and to beat him in the race, regardless of other factors.

[Carsandmotorracing]

Guys, Daniel doesn't decide what series he races in...

[Born Racer]

Daniel Ricciardo (18th)
“The first laps weren’t great but then I managed to pass a few people. Some laps later I got past Narain and set a good rhythm; I was happy with the first stint as everything was going well, the balance was good and the tyres were performing well. In the second stint I felt a strange feeling in the front of the car after a couple of laps, the car was moving quite a bit from left to right, I still don’t know the reason for this but it might have been a puncture. It’s a shame because as a cause we had to do an extra pit stop and lost quite a bit of time with that. In the third stint, once we found our pace we were quite competitive. It ruined the rhythm of our race but hopefully we can avoid it from happening next time".

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlin.../10/12726.html

[bella]

i'm going to end up contradicting myself here to try and convince you that you're not entirely correct.

grosjean returns to f1 as a different driver *because* of his rubbish f1 experience. winning trophies doesn't make any difference (well ok, it doesn't make much difference), the bit that has improved him and raised his game is the crap he took at renault, and the rebuilding process after that. just in the same way it would do for a young driver who had ended up in gp2 a little prematurely and taken a similar emotional kicking.

it's important for a driver to be able to cope with pressure, but a really talented driver who doesn't win a title is no worse than a marginally less talented driver who does.

[chunterer]

Grosjean's experience is a bit like Piero Martini who had a torrid time when he came into F1 in 1985 with Minardi as the great Italian hope. He had to regroup in F3000, quite succesfully, and reminded people that he was a decent pedaller.

He then returned to F1 and whilst he never got a drive worth a sniff, he gained a rep as a decent qualifier and managed a fairly lengthy career.