Brabham BT18

Steve Wilkinson · 27 Feb 2005, 11:42 (Ref:1237175)

I have a specific double headed query!

a) What is the chassis number of the Brabham BT18 which went through the following hands: 1966 Clive Baker, 1967 Bryan Eccles, 1968 Chris Cox, 1970 Richard Thwaites?

b) Was this the car that went on to be sprinted and hillclimbed by Dave Hartley in 1971?

Should be an easy one for the Brabham Nutz out there!

David McKinney · 27 Feb 2005, 19:49 (Ref:1237468)

Don't know if I would describe myself as a Brabham nut, but
(a) F2-44-66
(b) I believe so. Later Jimmy Johnstone and Peter Speakman

Steve Wilkinson · 28 Feb 2005, 10:11 (Ref:1237892)

David, thanks for the info. It never ceases to amaze me the depths of information so readily available on Tenths. It is making my task of getting the BMSA database correct so much easier!

Thanks again to David and the rest of you who have contributed.

Steve Wilkinson · 1 Mar 2005, 15:25 (Ref:1239131)

4 November 1971 issue of Autosport

Page 33 and in the report on the opening round of the Silverstone Sprint Championship there is a picture of the car plus in the body of the report a reference to it being the 'ex-Eccles, Thwaites Brabham BT18'.

Thanks again David for the chassis number. This one is now put to bed!

Steve Wilkinson · 9 Oct 2007, 08:34 (Ref:2035627)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Wilkinson

4 November 1971 issue of Autosport

Page 33 and in the report on the opening round of the Silverstone Sprint Championship there is a picture of the car plus in the body of the report a reference to it being the 'ex-Eccles, Thwaites Brabham BT18'.

Thanks again David for the chassis number. This one is now put to bed!

F2-44-66 was at Shelsley Walsh over the week-end being driven by CURRENT owner Bryan Eccles. It was looking immaculate after a Peter Denty work-out!

The car is currently for sale and I understand will be driven by a potential new owner at Curborough on the 21st October.

Steve Wilkinson · 9 Oct 2007, 16:27 (Ref:2036023)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Wilkinson

F2-44-66 was at Shelsley Walsh over the week-end being driven by CURRENT owner Bryan Eccles. It was looking immaculate after a Peter Denty work-out!

The car is currently for sale and I understand will be driven by a potential new owner at Curborough on the 21st October.

After the 60th Anniversary of the British Hillclimb Championship meeting at Shelsley Walsh when nearly everyone had packed up and set off home the Eccles BT18 was given a run up the hill by the propective new buyer. When he returned to the Paddock the deal was done and Simon Durling is now the new owner. He is still planning to give the car a run out at Curborough on the 21st.

Steve Wilkinson · 1 Mar 2005, 18:48 (Ref:1239308)

From 1971 until 1974 Tom Elton drove a 1.1 Brabham-Ford BDA BT18 in sprints and hillclimbs. His son Spencer also drove a BT18 (1.6 Brabham-Ford/Vegantune TC BT18) on a couple of occasions in 1972. Can anyone help with the chassis numbers of these cars?

David McKinney · 1 Mar 2005, 19:04 (Ref:1239314)

I believe the Tom Elton BT18 was F2-8-66 (originally Mike Hawley's). Owned in the 1990s by Roger Swanton.
Spencer seems to have had several, including the above car and the ex-Peter Lawson twincam (c/no unknown to me)

allenbrown · 1 Mar 2005, 19:34 (Ref:1239340)

Steve

Spencer was a dealer (still is) and had many cars. A new one most years. Ask him next time you're at an Autojumble.

Allen

Steve Wilkinson · 2 Mar 2005, 11:48 (Ref:1239953)

Allen, I went to Stoneleigh where I half expected Spencer to have a stall and never saw him! I have emailed him with enquiries but no response! I'll probably see him later in the year at Shelsley Walsh where he often has a stall selling books aand Memorabillia.

Dan Rear · 2 Mar 2005, 12:17 (Ref:1239979)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Wilkinson

Allen, I went to Stoneleigh where I half expected Spencer to have a stall and never saw him! I have emailed him with enquiries but no response! I'll probably see him later in the year at Shelsley Walsh where he often has a stall selling books aand Memorabillia.

Steve, there was definitely a stall with 'Spencer Elton' signs behind it. Whether he was on it I don't know, afraid I wouldn't recognise him anyway !

David McKinney · 2 Mar 2005, 12:21 (Ref:1239986)

Yes, he was there
More or less opposite the Ferret stand

allenbrown · 2 Mar 2005, 12:51 (Ref:1240010)

Look for the silver-haired gentleman usually deep in conversation with someone about eight feet from his stand. You should detect a mild west country accent. If you're not sure, ask him how's business. If he responds as if the world is just about to end, that's Spencer.

Allen

Ted Walker · 4 Mar 2005, 08:45 (Ref:1242086)

I think that Spencers 18 was F2-21-66. Ex Peter Deal car,David Way, and now in Australia/ Spencer was a very underated talent . many a time he would arrive at a circuit late (after a serious **** up the night before) miss practice, start from the back row and win.

Steve Wilkinson · 4 Mar 2005, 09:44 (Ref:1242133)

Once again the ferret comes up with the goods!

EliSolomon · 3 Apr 2005, 04:55 (Ref:1268351)

Can anyone help me trace the origins of BT18 AM128? The car was raced at Watkins Glen Vintage GP in 90 & 91 - either F3 or Formula C spec, and then in Colorado up to middle of 2004. There the standard Arch Motors stamp on the rear chassis but no plate on the dash.

Thanks

Eli Solomon
www.currypotproductions.com

Ted Walker · 3 Apr 2005, 07:57 (Ref:1268461)

All I have are 2 names in the USA. one being Duane Capps and the other Tom Ragnotti.

wap · 13 May 2006, 00:15 (Ref:1607475)

Hello:

It's about time to find out about the early history of my BT18, although, working on it and driving it is more important, I suppose!

It shows the following numbers: F2-26-66 (dash) and AM 136 AD near the lhs rear shock mount. I was told that the car was owned by a Toni Palmer in 67
(based on an ad at the end of the year). As such it may have run at Caldwell Park that year and finished 2nd. I have no idea what it did in 66. Certainly
no major F2 race.

I have a log book from SCCA where it ran in the midwest (USA).

Can anybody help with information?

Thanks in advance, Walter

Chris Townsend · 13 May 2006, 08:45 (Ref:1607728)

Walter

That chassis number is indeed given in Autosport magazine for Palmer's car when it appears at Cadwell Park in 1967. Unfortunately we've never been able to trace it back to a 1966 owner.

It would be a great help to us if you could give us the dates, places and owners of the car listed in the SCCA logbook [by private mail if you wish]
Without these documents it's almost impossible to identify users of BT18s and 21s in American FB racing, whether in the pro series or SCCA events.

Chris

wap · 13 May 2006, 13:33 (Ref:1607881)

Hello Chris:

Thanks. You were indeed one of two people who pointed me towards Tony Palmer. Here is what I know (based on the SCCA log book):

BT 18 F2-26-66

SCCA Log book identity no.: 18-268

Category: FC

color: black/yellow (I also have a spare body panel in this color), engine: Novamotor, 1000cc (entry from 8/22/74)

(car ran on midwest and eastern tracks - mostly in the hands of novices as occasional race school entries imply )

Ownership (as far as I can read the handwriting):

Mike Bystrom (? till 1/74)

Peter E. Pontante Jr. (from 1/74)

Ed Kasprowiecz (from 4/24/77)

Denny Sideri (from 8/12/78)

Wayne Boian (from 1/10/81)

Chris Stove (from 01/84)

That's where the SCCA log book ends

Owner till end of 90's: Gennaro Russo (State of New York), GR told me me bought the car in dissembled state from a "Japanese fellow".
Gennaro used the car in local events. (first with an SCA - which broke due to cam sprocket failure, then with a FF engine).
He sold me the car with another SCA/C engine freshly refurbished (if he had this engine done in the same shop as his first one I know why his first SCA broke -
fortunately I found the flaw before mine broke. Which confirms the rule (for the amateur racer): never race anything before you took it completely apart and back together again!). I moved the car back home to Graz, Austria when I ended my 17 years in the US.

You can see the car on my webpage: http://physik.kfunigraz.ac.at/%7Ewap/BT18.html

Also, if it's indeed the Tony Palmer car, you can see a glimpse of the car in the video "Motor Racing '60s Style 1960 & 1967, which I had watched many times before I bought the car. Seems the car then was red (as it now again is).

Regards, Walter

GR03 · 2 May 2007, 02:16 (Ref:1904680)

Chris Walter,

I just noticed your inquiry and yes I was one of the owners of this beautiful machine. I was very fortunate as they say "to be at the right place and time" to meet Mr. E. K. and purchase as it was my first open wheel car ever and one that helped me go through my drivers school at Nelson Ledges and begin the journey which I still pursue today. The looks very different from when I had it as it had a shovel nose and F3 Rear wing. Part of the original purchase agreement was for Ed to bring the car down to Nelson the weekend of my first drivers school and help me get through it. I remember being so "green" as they say because when my Instructor Rod Whelan inspected the car the first thing he asked was where were my racing slicks? Being new to the sport I didn't have a clue what he was asking as the tires on it where the old No dots grooved Firestonse. Rod kept reminding me that as my speed began to increase to watch out and not drive off the track. Please keep me posted as to your racing results and how you are doing and good luck!

Cheers!

Denny S.

roundelracing · 1 Jul 2010, 16:37 (Ref:2720827)

While trawling the web, I came across references to the BT 18 I raced in the early 70s. I bought the car as a rolling chassis from Bob Howlings in Manchester and had a Cosworth MAE fitted. I raced it 27 times in sprints, hillclimbs and circuits in the UK. Later I teamed up with Paul Brindley (both RAF at the time) and there are erroneous mentions of the Brabham being owned and raced by Paul. It was owned and raced by me - John Walmsley.

The car was originally green and with Winkelmann stickers but Paul and I painted our cars red, white and blue and called ourselves Roundel Racing (a pun on Rondel racing). Paul's car was an Alexis. In 1972 I had a Vegantune 1600 (Formula B) engine fitted and the car became an absolute gem to race and maintain.

I have some photos from the time if of any use to anyone.

Bryan Miller · 3 Apr 2005, 08:45 (Ref:1268481)

The 2nd of the two names listed by Ted is who I have associated with that AM no.
Suggest you contact John Hafkenshiel in the U.S.A. at brabworld@aol.com who may be able to assist .
Bryan Miller.

EliSolomon · 13 Apr 2005, 13:26 (Ref:1277169)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan Miller

The 2nd of the two names listed by Ted is who I have associated with that AM no.
Suggest you contact John Hafkenshiel in the U.S.A. at brabworld@aol.com who may be able to assist .
Bryan Miller.

Thanks for the leads guys. I'm waiting for John Hafkenschiel to revert with more information.

Bryan, do you know where can I find the link with Tom Ragnotti (or Duane Capps)? All the BT18 racing records are available for 1966, minus AM numbers of course. It's like a puzzle - a name here, a name there, and all I can do is try to follow up one lead after another, and hopefully something gives so I can close the circle and get on with another Historic sports racer that some guy called Ford Smith built in 1971.

Eli

Bryan Miller · 15 Apr 2005, 03:28 (Ref:1278495)

Eli,

As per my PM , nobody in period was going around looking at the back of F3 frames checking out AM numbers and matching them up with Chassis numbers .

More to the point hardly anyone was recording chassis numbers let alone AM numbers on F3 cars, how do you know it is an F3 , why can it not be an F2 , 1000cc SCA.

Who imported the car into Hawaii , who/ where did they obtain car from , if we had a U.K./ European name we may be able to do some good.

Bryan.

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