2023 Season

[crmalcolm]

24 races on the calendar:

https://www.fia.com/news/2023-fia-fo...-approved-wmsc

[S griffin]

I notice they have Brazil rather than Sao Paolo. Is that deliberate?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I notice they have Brazil rather than Sao Paolo. Is that deliberate?

I think so - they did the same for the 2022 season. Only Emilia Romagna and Imola are not shown by the FIA as host country for 2022.

The current schedule has the race listed as 'Brazil 2022' with the full race name listed as 'FORMULA 1 HEINEKEN GRANDE PRÊMIO DE SÃO PAULO 2022'

And just for further reference from 2020 - 'Formula 1 have announced that Sao Paulo will continue to be home to the Brazilian Grand Prix until 2025.

The Brazilian GP will officially be named the Formula 1 Grande Prêmio de São Paulo and will continue to be held at the famous Interlagos Circuit, with next year's race taking place on November 14, 2021.'

Interesting spot though - I guess technically the Mexico GP could also be listed as the Mexico City Grand Prix?

[Hawkwood]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I think so - they did the same for the 2022 season. Only Emilia Romagna and Imola are not shown by the FIA as host country for 2022.

The current schedule has the race listed as 'Brazil 2022' with the full race name listed as 'FORMULA 1 HEINEKEN GRANDE PRÊMIO DE SÃO PAULO 2022'

And just for further reference from 2020 - 'Formula 1 have announced that Sao Paulo will continue to be home to the Brazilian Grand Prix until 2025.

The Brazilian GP will officially be named the Formula 1 Grande Prêmio de São Paulo and will continue to be held at the famous Interlagos Circuit, with next year's race taking place on November 14, 2021.'

Interesting spot though - I guess technically the Mexico GP could also be listed as the Mexico City Grand Prix?

The 2022 is the Sao Paulo GP, as per its full race name - I believe this is because it's the Sao Paulo state government that's footing the bill, rather than the federal government?
(However, that link is weird, as the race is referred to twice as 'Brazil 2022/Brazilian Grand Prix', and twice as the 'Sao Paulo Grand Prix' - rather odd)


Same with the Mexico City GP name, rather than it being called the Mexican GP - shows who's funding it?

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Hawkwood

The 2022 is the Sao Paulo GP, as per its full race name - I believe this is because it's the Sao Paulo state government that's footing the bill, rather than the federal government?
(However, that link is weird, as the race is referred to twice as 'Brazil 2022/Brazilian Grand Prix', and twice as the 'Sao Paulo Grand Prix' - rather odd)


Same with the Mexico City GP name, rather than it being called the Mexican GP - shows who's funding it?

I had always considered that the move to have the Brazil race move back to Rio was the reason it was named the Sao Paulo GP, especially after the FIA gave them a contract till 2025.
Civil pride, regional antagonism, and all that.

[PhilipR]

is 24 too many?

It dilutes the value of a grand prix, and if a team is dominant it can become quite tedious and fans lose interest - not too mention fatigue when too much of one thing is given to you.

But then again we get more races per year, and seeing how F1 is selling out almost all tracks is a monetary gain for Liberty

However all this ecological talk and the travel makes no sense from this point of view.
Also I wonder if some planning is based on the 2021 season where we had a championship fight till the end meaning each race was an event - and interest was high till the final race. However more often than not championships battle end up before the final race - and it might become quite dull to have a champion crowned 5-6 races before the end of the season.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by PhilipR

is 24 too many?

Yes.

Although when I first read this I read it as “24 too many”! Which I thought was a little harsh.

[chavez]

Originally Posted by PhilipR

is 24 too many?

It dilutes the value of a grand prix, and if a team is dominant it can become quite tedious and fans lose interest - not too mention fatigue when too much of one thing is given to you.

But then again we get more races per year, and seeing how F1 is selling out almost all tracks is a monetary gain for Liberty

However all this ecological talk and the travel makes no sense from this point of view.
Also I wonder if some planning is based on the 2021 season where we had a championship fight till the end meaning each race was an event - and interest was high till the final race. However more often than not championships battle end up before the final race - and it might become quite dull to have a champion crowned 5-6 races before the end of the season.

The Chase for the Formula One World Championship.......surely only a matter of time.

[dsg]

Originally Posted by PhilipR

is 24 too many?

No. Most people work 48 to 52 weeks a year for far less money. Plus I like watching F1, so the more the better.

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Originally Posted by dsg

No. Most people work 48 to 52 weeks a year for far less money. Plus I like watching F1, so the more the better.

The team personnel do work 48 weeks a year, it’s not just the race weekends, but at the factory between events as well.

[dsg]

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

The team personnel do work 48 weeks a year, it’s not just the race weekends, but at the factory between events as well.

Then there is no issue with a few more races. Fi teams can rotate staff on the road and it is an opportunity for more people to get jobs in F1. God forbid they have to reduce a bit of F1 waste and employ more people.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by dsg

Then there is no issue with a few more races. Fi teams can rotate staff on the road and it is an opportunity for more people to get jobs in F1. God forbid they have to reduce a bit of F1 waste and employ more people.

Problem is, though, that they can't employ more staff as they are restricted by the budget cap. Many years ago it would have been easier to do because most, if not all teams, ran two sets of circuit personnel, one for testing and the other for race weekends. That no longer happens.

[Alan52]

So only France gets the chop.
Will they replace China when it is almost certainly cancelled?You would think they would go back to 23 but it puts a 4 week gap in the calendar.
Qatar in October?Very hot.Too hot but not if you’re in an air conditioned suite.
Edit-Average daily maximum for Doha in October is 35 and average minimum is 24.Given that the race is early in the month and it cools off a lot towards the end of the month race week temperatures are likely to be well north of those averages.
That is getting close to dangerous.The only time to have a race there is either between Las Vegas and Abu Dhabi or back at the start of the season.

[chunterer]

That could make prime time on ITV with Bradley Walsh hosting!

[crmalcolm]

Just an observation (if 24 is considered too many) - how many F1 races were held in 1950?

[ChrisA]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Just an observation (if 24 is considered too many) - how many F1 races were held in 1950?

Wasn't it about 8/9 races?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by ChrisA

Wasn't it about 8/9 races?

The 1950 Formula One season featured the inaugural FIA World Championship of Drivers.

The full season consisted of 24 races. The Championship consisted of six Grand Prix races, each held in Europe and open to Formula One cars, plus the Indianapolis 500, which was run to AAA National Championship regulations.

It's just an observation that there were sometimes as many GPs around that time as we have today. 1949 had 27 Grand Prix races for example.

I just thought it interesting amongst the opinion that 24 races 'dilutes the value of the GP'.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

The 1950 Formula One season featured the inaugural FIA World Championship of Drivers.

The full season consisted of 24 races. The Championship consisted of six Grand Prix races, each held in Europe and open to Formula One cars, plus the Indianapolis 500, which was run to AAA National Championship regulations.

It's just an observation that there were sometimes as many GPs around that time as we have today. 1949 had 27 Grand Prix races for example.

I just thought it interesting amongst the opinion that 24 races 'dilutes the value of the GP'.

What were the 24 and what were they called?

And yes, a lot of those were “diluted”. This happened p as the entry lists varied. This time the dilution is due to fatigue.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Adam43

What were the 24 and what were they called?

And yes, a lot of those were “diluted”. This happened p as the entry lists varied. This time the dilution is due to fatigue.

I agree - it is not entirely comparable. As I say, just an observation on the 'volume' of races compared to the past.

The Championship events were:
British Grand Prix
Monaco Grand Prix
Indianapolis 500
Swiss Grand Prix
Belgian Grand Prix
French Grand Prix
Italian Grand Prix

The non-Championship events were:
XI Pau Grand Prix
II Richmond Trophy
V San Remo Grand Prix
IV Grand Prix de Pari
XII British Empire Trophy
IV Gran Premio di Bari
IV J.C.C. Jersey Road Race
XII Circuit de l'Albigeois
I Grote Prijs van Nederland
III Grand Prix des Nations
I Nottingham Trophy
IV Ulster Trophy
XIX Coppa Acerbo
I Sheffield Telegraph Trophy
II BRDC International Trophy
III Goodwood Trophy
X Gran Premio de Penya Rhin

[S griffin]

6 plus the Indy 500. But then there were many non championship races too.

[Derwent]

It's all about greed. There are six races which should not appear due to human rights issues, plus those in the USA. It's seems any tinpot dictatorship can buy a F1 race as part of a campaign to be "legitimate".
There is also the environmental aspect of transporting the whole circus around the world. Will drivers and team members want to do all those events? At the moment the TV companies are rotating their pundits etc.
Will drivers retire earlier in order to have a family life (eg Rosberg & Vettel)

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Derwent

There are six races which should not appear due to human rights issues, plus those in the USA.

That seems very specific.

If I may ask - which six (only six)? And why USA?

As I have mentioned previously - name any country on the calendar and I could put forward an argument on why the human rights record in that county means they should not host a GP.

If I take Christopher Farris and Keith Schnakenberg's Human Rights Protection Scores as a guide, then I would reach the conclusion that the six races you refer to are (worst country first):
Brazil, Mexico, China, Saudi Arabia, Azerbaijan and UAE.

(USA actually scores worse than Azerbaijan and UAE).

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

As I have mentioned previously - name any country on the calendar and I could put forward an argument on why the human rights record in that county means they should not host a GP.

And had previously been established you can list many technically, but a very simple consideration and realism shows you are just being technical not practical about it.

And you would do well to remember the crap we had before when you kept going there.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Adam43

And had previously been established you can list many technically, but a very simple consideration and realism shows you are just being technical not practical about it.

It's why I think it is a subject best avoided - but for some reason posters keep bringing it up as a reason to not visit certain countries, usually for other prejudicial reasons.

Is there a practical solution? Where would the line be drawn over an acceptable level of Human Rights?

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

It's why I think it is a subject best avoided - but for some reason posters keep bringing it up as a reason to not visit certain countries, usually for other prejudicial reasons.

Is there a practical solution? Where would the line be drawn over an acceptable level of Human Rights?

Excluding the fact that graph is basically warmed garbage and cherry picked data that actually doesn't show anything about a government but rather how those chosen to draw the data wish to be controlled. If you're going to bring to pretend your bringing facts at least understand how your data is drawn