LMDh (DPi regulations version 2.0)

[NaBUru38]

IMSA is planning to adopt new DPi regulations in 2022. What we know:

o- 9 manufacturers are interested.
o- Hybrid electric powertrains are confirmed.
o- Front axis electric motors are discarded.
o- Power levels are discussed. Some want high, some want low.
o- Cost control and affordability by privateer teams are concerns.
o- Bodywork will have more freedom.
o- Compatibility with FIA WEC Hypercars is a possibility.
o- Next meeting is at Watkins Glen.

[MaskedRacer]

They might become the fastest cars in sportscar racing with LMP1 going away. Hypercars won't be as fast if the Le Mans 3 min 30 projection is true.

[carbsmith]

Originally Posted by MaskedRacer

They might become the fastest cars in sportscar racing with LMP1 going away. Hypercars won't be as fast if the Le Mans 3 min 30 projection is true.

That depends on being faster than GT500.

I would fully expect 2022 DPi to be BoP'd at LMP1 pace at best though, there's absolutely no benefit to going faster. If that is even possible using next gen LMP2 cars as the base vehicle.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by carbsmith

That depends on being faster than GT500.

I would fully expect 2022 DPi to be BoP'd at LMP1 pace at best though, there's absolutely no benefit to going faster. If that is even possible using next gen LMP2 cars as the base vehicle.

As far as we know, is the plan for DPi 2.0 to utilize the upcoming P2 chassis as a base? Do we know anything about the upcoming P2 chassis? I assume they will follow a similar format with a small number of regulated manufacturers but I can't imagine the actual rules regarding the tub will change all that much.

I guess what I'm getting at is, I expect the next gen dpi cars to be about the same (in looks) as the current cars but will also include some type of hybrid system. Don't know what will be done with minimum weight but I would have to imagine the cars will be faster on the current IMSA tracks than they are right now

[Maelochs]

Originally Posted by joeb

As far as we know, is the plan for DPi 2.0 to utilize the upcoming P2 chassis as a base? Do we know anything about the upcoming P2 chassis? I assume they will follow a similar format with a small number of regulated manufacturers but I can't imagine the actual rules regarding the tub will change all that much.

I guess what I'm getting at is, I expect the next gen dpi cars to be about the same (in looks) as the current cars but will also include some type of hybrid system. Don't know what will be done with minimum weight but I would have to imagine the cars will be faster on the current IMSA tracks than they are right now

I figure the P2 chassis will stay for cost effectiveness and performance---it offers both, why mess with it?

[Phantom Lord]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

I figure the P2 chassis will stay for cost effectiveness and performance---it offers both, why mess with it?

IMSA were making noises about a spec DTM/Super GT -style safety-cell: https://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/i...-new-dpi-regs/

Is that still on the cards, or has it been ruled out?

[NaBUru38]

I don't think that the DPi 2.0 can do 3'30.

[broadrun96]

They are already faster than LMP2s and they are running 3:25s so how would they not run a 3:30??

[canaglia]

likely a michelin 2019 dpi can run somewhere between 3.22 and 3.23 at best.


3.30 for hypercar is the target time for race trim, it may mean about 3.25 for pole.


Anyway, guess dpi 2.0 could realistically become the fastest sportscars of their age. It's just about how much combined power will get with electric motor boost.

[Akrapovic]

IMSA LMP2s are 10kg heavier and have a smaller fuel allocation then ACO LMP2. DPi will be easily as fast as ACO LMP2.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

IMSA LMP2s are 10kg heavier and have a smaller fuel allocation then ACO LMP2. DPi will be easily as fast as ACO LMP2.

ACO LMP2: spec dunlop, 930kg, 9000-9200rpm gibson 600hp and about 560Nm as torque peak, sprint and le mans homologated bodywork and gear ratios.


IMSA DPi: spec michelin, 910-960kg according to bop, 2019 DPi have a bit more power, so about 620hp and different torque levels (guess mazda is in the range of 520Nm for most of the range; acura, cadillac and nissan should be >600Nm for most of rpm range). Aero settings according to bop, but basically it doesn't exist a full low drag aero bodywork.


If we take 3.25 as ACO lmp2 benchmark,

guess DPi has more mid-range power and cadillac, acura and nissan have much more torque in low-mid range. Guess DPi michelin too are better than dunlop even if michelin lacks of a soft compound if memory helps me.



In a LM virtual lap, I expect a 930kg DPi a couple of km/h slower than oreca and dallara on straight (ligier lmp2 always had worse top speeds, except riley lmp2... but you know....) but considerably faster exiting long straight chicanes, mulsanne corner, arnage and ford chicanes.

DPi should be slightly faster on porsche sector because of their less low drag design that should produce more downforce than lmp2 in LM bodywork.


No doubts for me the fastest DPi could run 2 seconds faster than ACO lmp2.

[Tique]

It will be nice if the DPi 2.0 can operate in the same performance window than the hypercar and Run the same race. We could have then a very good mix of car on the grid (Cadillac, Mazda, Accra, Toyota, Aston Martin, Rébellion, SMP, ... )


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk

[broadrun96]

On the same track, at the same time of year the WEC LMP2s were running tick faster than the current DPis, 1:44.28 average vs 1:45.86 Acura DPi. Tell me the cars will be going slower with an update and they are already close in pace. The idea that the next gen DPi will be slower and not able to theoretically do a 3:30 is either intentionally obstinate, delusional or LMP2s must be better. The LMP2s aren't getting any faster any time soon and the DPis will only get faster

[TF110]

I think the new dpi will depend on what lmp2 turns into. And it'll depend on how many sign up for hypercar and it's popularity. If big names like Ford want to do both but with the same car, you might see the rules sway towards what the ACO are offering. But who can tell right now.

[chernaudi]

IMSA are wondering if they should run a 48 volt hybrid, or allow options of 100-400 volts. Ford and BMW are said to be in favor of allowing hybrid systems of up to 400 volts:

https://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/i...e-for-dpi-2-0/

[joeb]

Lambo is liking the direction of the DPi class.

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...gram-for-2022/

Would be fantastic to see them in prototypes.

[broadrun96]

And the interview makes it seems like they're serious about building something, but DPi sounds like the MUCH lower investment they are looking for. But interesting to see what's in the back and how detuned that engine would have to be with hybrid. Could see a few teams trying to get a bit of factory support and marketing bump from running a Lamborghini, and WTR runs more than a few SuperTrofeo cars and was supposedly interested in other programs as well from them.

Hopefully this is accurate from S365: High voltage hybrids seem to be at the head of the field again for DPi 2.0. I can't believe WTR can whine as much as he does. I can see the P2 guys and Juncos having challenges but he tries to present the team as the leader in DPi racing and tested the Caddy but somehow runs on a shoestring budget. Makes me feel the same way for them as I do about the guys at Ford constantly crying about how heartbreaking not winning is. They were on the podium but somehow that's just too painful to even discuss? Both make me want to show them the door, racing is expensive and you don't always win.

[truebeliever]

[QUOTE=broadrun96;3915385] I can't believe WTR can whine as much as he does. I can see the P2 guys and Juncos having challenges but he tries to present the team as the leader in DPi racing and tested the Caddy but somehow runs on a shoestring budget.

Tell me news, not history.

WT has always been like that. He races on a big chunk of OP's money, and always makes out they are the poor, hard done by team in IMSA.

Crocodile tears.

[carbsmith]

How many teams are there in IMSA that aren't being banked off of either pay drivers or owner personal fortune? Of those, how many aren't 100% factory backed teams? I don't even think there's any that fit in the latter category besides WTR. I guess Shank is allegedly not an Acura factory team but I'm not sure anyone believes that. Juncos is only concerned about making sure they're in something where the pay driver dollars match the expenses so this doesn't concern them near as much as Wayne Taylor wondering how he's going to run his championship level professional sports car racing team if it costs $10m/year and he has $5m/year to work with.

Like it or not WTR may be the only committed IMSA team there. The GTD garage is full of pay to race mercenaries that will run anything you write a cheque for.

[Maelochs]

Actually WTR might have a problem getting cash if the new cars are a lot more expensive because the team has to pay for the car before it can hire drivers .... In any case, while one could characterize Wayne Taylor's comments as "whining" once could also describe them as a long-time racer and team owner's comments on the proposed significant cost increase in a class which doesn't seem to attract a lot of new sponsor dollars. It just depends on one's bias. And frankly, I wouldn't doubt that it would be hard for Any team to double its costs .... and if I were a team owner I might prefer a lower-tech, cheaper alternative as well. No reason I can see to criticize Wayne Taylor because of his comments.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

Actually WTR might have a problem getting cash if the new cars are a lot more expensive because the team has to pay for the car before it can hire drivers .... In any case, while one could characterize Wayne Taylor's comments as "whining" once could also describe them as a long-time racer and team owner's comments on the proposed significant cost increase in a class which doesn't seem to attract a lot of new sponsor dollars. It just depends on one's bias. And frankly, I wouldn't doubt that it would be hard for Any team to double its costs .... and if I were a team owner I might prefer a lower-tech, cheaper alternative as well. No reason I can see to criticize Wayne Taylor because of his comments.

I would be ok with that if he doesn't at the same time lobby to be the chosen GM partner. He was and got the benefits of that. Pretending he didn't get paid handsomely to test is wanting to believe him as "poor." He was THE testing partner and put the car out front, to think GM wouldn't take him on again as the testing partner is delusional. Now GM would be better suited to run AXR and Derani as their test team but GM is lazy and goes with their past relationships.

And keep in mind this guy also runs multiple Lamborghini Super Trofeo cars and lobbied Lamborghini for the factory GTLM program to be built up. He's not the tiny team owner running out of a trailer, it's a LARGE race team.

[carbsmith]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

I would be ok with that if he doesn't at the same time lobby to be the chosen GM partner.

I'm not sure I understand the contradiction between needing factory support and trying to get factory support. Yes GM helps them out, and that's barely enough without teaming Jordan with a company CEO or a different driver every other race or having Jim France's cheque book and connections like the other Cadillacs.

WTR appears to be neither the car owner nor entrant for Super Trofeo, that's obviously pay to play.

[truebeliever]

Originally Posted by carbsmith

I'm not sure I understand the contradiction between needing factory support and trying to get factory support. Yes GM helps them out, and that's barely enough without teaming Jordan with a company CEO or a different driver every other race or having Jim France's cheque book and connections like the other Cadillacs.

WTR appears to be neither the car owner nor entrant for Super Trofeo, that's obviously pay to play.

Absolute truth is, with out Jim France's $'s, the sponsors ''given to'' WTR and the GM $'s, WT would have been a spectator years ago.

These are the facts of life, but also, that is life today.

[Maelochs]

Let's see which way GM goes .... considering the lack of results WTR has been posting lately.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

Let's see which way GM goes .... considering the lack of results WTR has been posting lately.

WTR dominated 2017 season because of ricky taylor huge performances and because of dallara help during the season who helped them to find the best set-up race by race. Without dallara assistance they lacked of consistence.


Infact WTR and AXR, despite using same car and same tyres have a way different suspensions set-up (according to rumors WTR tried to copy in any possible way AXR set-up this season).