Jenson v Lewis what is the final verdict

[Kevin Cooke]

Ok so back at the end of 2009 when JB decided to join McLaren all the pundits said, mad, crazy, he'll be shown up, destroyed.

So what has happened, very interesting in my view.

1. Yes Lewis has been proven to be quicker on a given lap.
2. Over 3 seasons JB scored 672 points and Lewis scored 657
3. Lewis had 10 wins and JB 8 (9 really as Canada 2011 must be worth 2!!)
4. Lewis has moved on.
5. JB has the possibilty of having the car totally to his liking next year, I say possibility because Perez could prove quicker in testing and then McLaren would need to figure out who to back.

All in all I think JB has held is own and proven to be a class act.

Any other views?

Kevin

[TWRv12]

6. Jenson has the charisma and class of a champion. LH not so much lately

If McLaren develop a car more suited to JB, we know what he can do.

[Born Racer]

Originally Posted by TWRv12

6. Jenson has the charisma and class of a champion. LH not so much lately

I didn't realise champions necessarily had or had to have charisma and class.

Hamilton wins it easily for me, but I know many will point at the stats, but I've seen enough. Hamilton might just eke it, but for me Hamilton's much more mightily consistently quick.

[Peter Mallett]

It is interesting; on seasonal stats Lewis wins 2:1 but on overall points Jenson wins. I think that may demonstrate that as equal team mates with differeng styles, there's not much difference in capabilities. Mishaps such as wheelnuts jamming, wheels falling off etc. are largely out of the driver's control so it would be unfair to cry that one or the other enjoyed better reliability in any particular season.

On the other hand Lewis is a more complete racer in terms of speed. But both of them can overtake and (I stand to be corrected) Jenson made more passing moves last season than any other driver, of course this could be explained by his generally lesser qualifying position. However he also proved that you can win if you have enough talent from lower grid positions.

On balance I doubt McLaren will miss Lewis as much as Lewis will miss McLaren, because Jenson, who is well known for getting a team "on side" will, I feel, up his game next year.

[nicanary]

I don't have a "favourite" driver, and can watch the races as a neutral, but I must admit it pleases me if Jenson wins. I like his style.

He seems to lack the grit to overcome problems in the manner of LH or SV, and needs the car to suit the track or nothing. As you infer, if McLaren collude with him on next year's design, it could be interesting.

[Marbot]

With regard to having vital input into next seasons car:

"When you're team-mates with Lewis you share the direction of the car, if you like. Whereas now, with Lewis leaving, I have a couple of months to really direct the team into what I would like with the car before Checo (Pérez) arrives."


http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/2...ortant-for-me/

On reflection, and bearing in mind that McLaren was Hamilton's team, Button has done an outstanding job.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Marbot

With regard to having vital input into next seasons car:

"When you're team-mates with Lewis you share the direction of the car, if you like. Whereas now, with Lewis leaving, I have a couple of months to really direct the team into what I would like with the car before Checo (Pérez) arrives."


http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/2...ortant-for-me/

On reflection, and bearing in mind that McLaren was Hamilton's team, Button has done an outstanding job.

This is the point that makes Button's retention at McLaren really interesting.
Lewis is clearly faster in qualifying with an imperfect car, or the car that McLaren produced, but, how fast will Jenson be with a car that is built round him?

Will they get it right between them, Jenson and McLaren?

McLaren were clearly very impressed with Jenson's input!

Quali 14 - 43 in Hamilton's favour.

[JHamilton]

And on that point, I think McLaren will be better as a team focusing on Jenson. There certainly will be less drama and maybe more speed to go with it. Jenson spent a large portion of his career at the back of grids and teetering on losing his ride. Because of this I believe he appreciates and values the opportunity he has right now. I'm not sure the same is true for Hamilton.

[W.A Trichlorostyrene]

Originally Posted by wnut

Quali 14 - 43 in Hamilton's favour.

To me it also shows that qualifying doesn't have the importance it once had, with the Pirellis, and DRS making overtaking easier.

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by wnut

This is the point that makes Button's retention at McLaren really interesting.
Lewis is clearly faster in qualifying with an imperfect car, or the car that McLaren produced, but, how fast will Jenson be with a car that is built round him?

About as fast as he is now I would imagine. After all, he said at the start of the season that the car was the closest to his driving style it had ever been at McLaren.

Really, I would say he is dependent on the tyres suiting him.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

On balance I doubt McLaren will miss Lewis as much as Lewis will miss McLaren, because Jenson, who is well known for getting a team "on side" will, I feel, up his game next year.

I totally agree.

[Knowlesy]

Jenson is a beautiful driver and probably a better team man, with his vast experience and less fiery nature.

If we count Lewis' dreadful 2011 as a blip (which I do) then I feel Hamilton had the upper hand quite easily. And he did seem to suffer his reliability problems whilst in very strong positions.

I find it barely believable that Hamilton finished two points ahead of Button this season just gone. There were very few weekends where Button had the upper hand and I can't really think of any major mistakes Hamilton made barring an ineffectual tour off the road in Abu Dhabi and a poor setup choice in Belgium qualifying.

I am definitely Lewis biased of course, so feel free to tear into me.

[Peter Mallett]

I think this is the problem, bias. With respect those who like Lewis above Jenson, are IMO those who also followed Montoya with almost disciple like tendencies. Notwithstanding Lewis' obvious talent, he has too many flaws in his general character, such as that chip, which come to the fore when things go wrong.

I really can't subscribe to the car failure thing because it happened to both of them, not least Silverstone last year for Jenson. So to suggest Lewis has had a worse time is being biased. Also, lest we forget, whilst it is true that Jenson may be a somewhat more sensitive driver, Lewis wasn't exactly setting the world alight at those races (eg Silverstone 2012) where the car really didn't perform.

On balance I am surprised anyone can really decide which is better. Two points this year, but an overall points advantage for Button, suggest that they are both equally talented. That said, if I were a betting man I'd put money on Button winning another WDC before Hamilton.

[garcon]

I was one of the few who thought Button would hand Hamilton's ass to him on a plate - the vocal majority seemed convinced it would be the other way round.

In the event, we were both wrong. I can only call it an honourable draw, with perhaps Button having a slight advantage. They've both had peaks and troughs, they've shown almost diametrically opposite approaches and skill sets, which in the end more or less cancelled each other out. Combine the best qualities of both of them and you'd have an almost nailed on WDC favourite.

[Knowlesy]

So to clarify, a drivers performance on a given weekend is discounted completely if he has a mechanical failure?

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

So to clarify, a drivers performance on a given weekend is discounted completely if he has a mechanical failure?

You'd have to discount mechanical failures if you want to be objective.

[MikeManNZ]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

You'd have to discount mechanical failures if you want to be objective.

I am not so sure.

A mechanically sympathetic driver is able to get more finishes out of a car with borderline reliability.

If the car is generally bulletproof then it can be the case maybe but I do not believe that something a complex and out on the edge as an F1 car can be called bulletproof.

There was a European driver who came down to NZ to race Formula Atlantic back in the day, he used more consumables (dog rings etc.) in gearboxes than the rest of the 20 car field combined, mind you his clutch lasted the whole season as he used it twice a session, once at the start and once pulling into the pits

At the end of the day the drivers style can and will affect reliability and is IMHO a big difference between Lewis and Jenson, and I am a Lewis fan

[davyboy]

Lewis=hare, Jenson=tortoise.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by davyboy

Lewis=hare, Jenson=tortoise.

Interesting point. So this year the stats show Button having more fastest laps than Hamilton.

http://www.formula1.com/results/seas...test_laps.html

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Interesting point. So this year the stats show Button having more fastest laps than Hamilton.

http://www.formula1.com/results/seas...test_laps.html

Fastest laps this year are a bit of a misnomer as they're generally done on the last lap or two of the race... a point in time when many drivers will be cruising or managing problems etc... It's different to when refuelling was allowed. I haven't checked it myself, but the qualifying stats would be more interesting I think.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

So to clarify, a drivers performance on a given weekend is discounted completely if he has a mechanical failure?

No. But these things generally even out among team mates over a period of time. Plus. Sometimes a driver just uses up his 'luck' quota elsewhere.

Originally Posted by davyboy

Lewis=hare, Jenson=tortoise.

Perhaps a mixture of the two would be best?

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

You'd have to discount mechanical failures if you want to be objective.

True. If we go back through F1 history and judge drivers on whether or not they beat them by simply having better reliability than their team mates, then what's the point of it all?

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Interesting point. So this year the stats show Button having more fastest laps than Hamilton.

http://www.formula1.com/results/seas...test_laps.html

That's actually a trophy that Hamilton has never won.

"Vettel's Red Bull team-mate, Mark Webber, claimed the DHL title last season, while Räikkönen and Alonso have also won the award since it was introduced in 2007."

To quote GPupdate.

[luke g28]

Nobody would be saying the Mclaren was the quickest car this year if Hamilton wasnt driving it.

Hamilton also appears better at pushing an imperfect car around and getting the lap time out of it, whereas button needs it just right.

Im a lewis fan but I think thats a fairly pragmatic view.

[Andrew2001]

I whole heartedly agree with the original post on this. It was alot closer than the qualifying and lap times would suggest.
I think Lewis proved to be quite erratic under pressure, and certainly 'too aggressive' compared to Jenson's much cleaner style.
I do think though, that Lewis is more capable of getting more out of a car that isn't quite right whereas Jenson is a bit more exposed and not as quick. When the car is too his liking, well he is the quickest out there.

Jenson WDC 2013.

[Bononi]

I think it was the best pair of drivers McLaren ever had, yes, better than Senna/Prost, because they got along well.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Bononi

I think it was the best pair of drivers McLaren ever had, yes, better than Senna/Prost, because they got along well.

Indeed. You would never now win a drivers championship with that sort of team management going on.

Hamilton wins votes because of his often 'combative' driving style, which can have a poorer outcome (crashing), and lead to other issues (hissy fits). I can't remember the last time Button suffered from either of them.

For me, Hamilton wins hands down if you want your driver to take on the role and image of a dare devil fighter plane pilot. He'll get all of the attention. Button is the guy flying the precision night time bombing mission behind enemy lines. Both doing a similar job, but in different ways.