Tech Issue Nine teams fall foul of FIA Fashion Police?

duke_toaster · 21 Jul 2011, 19:44 (Ref:2929546)

Quote:

Originally Posted by @willbuxton

Massive controversy in Germany. 10 teams in contravention of FIA regulations. So far only Lotus and HRT are legal (I think). No joke.

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Just heard from @marussiavirgin that they are also legal. MASSIVE! So 3 teams legal.

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The issue, incredibly, is driver overalls. FIA compliance must be stitched to collars. Screen prints are thus illegal.

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Even stitching a patch to the collar apparently will not suffice according to sources tonight. I know this seems crazy. Crazy but true.

Will they be able to get replacement racesuits on time? What even is the penalty?

Jamesy-18 · 21 Jul 2011, 19:56 (Ref:2929550)

FFS! This is exactly the problem with needless, stupid regulations. Who really cares if the FIA compliance is stitched on or not?! The sport just gets stupider and stupider.

**bella** · 21 Jul 2011, 19:58 (Ref:2929551)

when they clamp down on it in non-f1 stuff you're not allowed to race till you go shopping and get your credit card out.

don't see the problem in not complying. the rules are very obvious, seems like the companies themselves have dropped the ball, not the teams.

and why is enforcing a rule regarding safety equipment "needless" and "stupid"? it's a rule for a reason.

MGDavid · 21 Jul 2011, 20:44 (Ref:2929573)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bella

.......it's a rule for a reason.

and that's why this country is in such a state; there are many many rules and laws and edicts that are *not* for any good reason.

ChrisPage · 22 Jul 2011, 16:44 (Ref:2929847)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MGDavid

and that's why this country is in such a state; there are many many rules and laws and edicts that are *not* for any good reason.

I thought this country was in a state because so many bankers had been ignoring any silly rules and edicts they choose to ignore and then the whole pile came crashing down on them when it turned out these rules and edicts were there for a reason...

But then comments from either of us on the 'state of the nation' in a thread about safety clothing is probably off topic...

Jamesy-18 · 21 Jul 2011, 20:47 (Ref:2929576)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bella

when they clamp down on it in non-f1 stuff you're not allowed to race till you go shopping and get your credit card out.

don't see the problem in not complying. the rules are very obvious, seems like the companies themselves have dropped the ball, not the teams.

and why is enforcing a rule regarding safety equipment "needless" and "stupid"? it's a rule for a reason.

Because if they have the correct fire proof clothing etc, what difference does it make if there isn't an FIA badge on it or whatever? It's not like they're in danger.

Stupid, stupid, stupid FIA.

When will this sport start to become a sport again and not a farce?

Richard C · 21 Jul 2011, 21:17 (Ref:2929594)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamesy-18

Because if they have the correct fire proof clothing etc, what difference does it make if there isn't an FIA badge on it or whatever? It's not like they're in danger.

Stupid, stupid, stupid FIA.

When will this sport start to become a sport again and not a farce?

Who says they are not in danger. If you can't trust certification stickers/labels, then people might be in danger.

This reminds me of the same thing that happened here in the US with the SFI Foundation and Impact Racing (Bill Simpson) about a year ago or so. If I remember correctly, while his product had been certified by SFI, I think he was creating his own labels instead of sourcing them from SFI.

While I think organizations like SFI and Snell sell the labels/patches/etc. as their method of funding, there is also the issue of authenticity. As soon as you let people start to print their own stickers, patches, etc. then the concept of an official certification label or patch becomes meaningless. With FIA, I am sure it's not about money, but control.

Hubble · 22 Jul 2011, 23:34 (Ref:2929976)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

As soon as you let people start to print their own stickers, patches, etc. then the concept of an official certification label or patch becomes meaningless

And why is that any different to the manufacturers embroidering the details on the suits....?

If the FIA checked each suit and embroidered the info on afterwards to indicate compliance that would be a different matter...but that's not what goes on....

Truth is the markings are meaningless until the brown smelly stuff contacts the big whirly thing and you need the suit to protect you from fire...only then will you know if the labelling/embroidery on the suit is worth anything....

JamesH · 22 Jul 2011, 12:26 (Ref:2929773)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamesy-18

Because if they have the correct fire proof clothing etc, what difference does it make if there isn't an FIA badge on it or whatever? It's not like they're in danger.

Stupid, stupid, stupid FIA.

When will this sport start to become a sport again and not a farce?

Because if there isn't a badge on it of the correct certification, then it ISN'T the correct fire proof suit. Simples.

Same with seat belts (in road cars as well I believe).

It's the proof that the suit (or equipment) meets the required standards.

wnut · 23 Jul 2011, 01:22 (Ref:2930000)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesH

Because if there isn't a badge on it of the correct certification, then it ISN'T the correct fire proof suit. Simples.

Same with seat belts (in road cars as well I believe).

It's the proof that the suit (or equipment) meets the required standards.

Dead right!

Sadly some nitwit can always make something a little worse and a little cheaper until you have a genuine plastic firesuit made in ......with a forged label screen printed into the suit to save money. Good luck with that!

Quality costs money!

The official label is only issued to certified manufacturers, who incidentally have paid for the certification and the effort to ensure the necessary quality is maintained in their suits.

Failing which they are not issued with any further labels and their suits are no longer legal!

If you don't value the certification - wear a T-shirt if they will let you, no problem

.

Mr V · 23 Jul 2011, 02:10 (Ref:2930001)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnut

Dead right!

Sadly some nitwit can always make something a little worse and a little cheaper until you have a genuine plastic firesuit made in ......with a forged label screen printed into the suit to save money. Good luck with that!

Quality costs money!

.

So the teams spend £50 million on KERS to go 4/10ths of a second faster, yet save themselves 50 quid by buying inferior race suits ?

jab · 21 Jul 2011, 21:04 (Ref:2929582)

When fans stop looking into F1 in every little tiny detail to try and find controversies that aren't controversies

Nothing will come from this. It's a wind-up - it's probably be true but it doesn't matter. Will's just taking advantage of the fact that people eat this sort of thing up to have an excuse to get angry

duke_toaster · 21 Jul 2011, 21:21 (Ref:2929597)

I remember hearing about pony racesuits in Australia causing some V8 Supercar drivers to have to use plain white racesuits.

**touringlegend** · 21 Jul 2011, 22:04 (Ref:2929611)

Quote:

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

I remember hearing about pony racesuits in Australia causing some V8 Supercar drivers to have to use plain white racesuits.

Well and that's exactly the reason why the FIA info needs to be on the suit.

Sorry but in my view, the rules do need to be strictly enforced.

**Adam43** · 21 Jul 2011, 22:34 (Ref:2929628)

This is ridiculous. This madness needs to stop before someone is hurt. Do they really care about the fans? 100% not. Wibble. I blame the parents.

Tourer · 21 Jul 2011, 22:52 (Ref:2929638)

Who is this idiot Will Buxton describing this repeatedly as "Massive"?

Not really massive but the suits need to be right and I would imagine that teams and their suppliers have embroiderers on their way or already at the track getting this sorted out.

I would think that the manufacturers will be able to show compliance in all other regards so it is time for needles and thread.

The issue mentioned with the suits in Australia was (allegedly) one manufacturer or supplier using incorrect certification numbers in their suits - was talk of forged numbers or them using someone else's numbers at the time but in all honesty I can't recall how it ended up except that some of the drivers did indeed race that weekend with unbranded but correctly certified suits.

gregc · 22 Jul 2011, 13:09 (Ref:2929784)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam43

This is ridiculous. This madness needs to stop before someone is hurt. Do they really care about the fans? 100% not. Wibble. I blame the parents.

You forgot something.

Won't somebody think of the children!!

tristancliffe · 22 Jul 2011, 13:33 (Ref:2929788)

If my race suit isn't labelled properly, I don't get to race. I'm glad it isn't any different in F1 (although I doubt Sparco would get it sorted in a few hours for me for no cost!). There are legal and common sense requirements in having the correct labelling in place.

This is just stupid reporting rather than a stupid rule. I'm sure, per race weekend, there are hundreds of "please sort this" requests between the scrutineers and officials and the teams.

b1ackcr0w · 22 Jul 2011, 14:17 (Ref:2929801)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tristancliffe

If my race suit isn't labelled properly, I don't get to race. I'm glad it isn't any different in F1 (although I doubt Sparco would get it sorted in a few hours for me for no cost!). There are legal and common sense requirements in having the correct labelling in place.

This is just stupid reporting rather than a stupid rule. I'm sure, per race weekend, there are hundreds of "please sort this" requests between the scrutineers and officials and the teams.

Tristan's right. And if you need more convincing, go ask this guy if he thinks it's a good idea to be 100% sure everybody's wearing the right kit...

ChrisPage · 22 Jul 2011, 16:52 (Ref:2929852)

Quote:

Originally Posted by b1ackcr0w

Tristan's right. And if you need more convincing, go ask this guy if he thinks it's a good idea to be 100% sure everybody's wearing the right kit...

Lauda pic removed so as not to have it repeatedly pop up!

Yes, this. 100%.

The label says it has met the regulations and comes from an approved source. Anyone can screen print on a label stating 'this suit passes all the tests honest guv' - but the official labels are just that - official.

As also suggested above however, I suspect this is slightly more than just about F1 (trhough the rule is fair IMHO).

Every club racer/sprinter/competitor gets their label checked. Every time. If it ain't right you don't race. And you are talking about a serious financial hit if a club racer loses his entry for that.

Scrutineers don't have the most glamourous jobs, but it is essential. The last thing they need is every club racer turning up with cheap screen printed gear and then spending half an hour arguing the toss about 'well the F1 boys do it so why are you wasting my entry fee Mr Jobsworth'.

Well, from an F1 Grand Prix down to a club level sprint its so you have the best chance of getting out your burning car and still keeping your skin.

**bella** · 22 Jul 2011, 14:03 (Ref:2929795)

he was being sarcastic, albeit about a genuine issue. sadly for some, they didn't quite understand his tone

but what is interesting is peoples inabilities to interpret genuine rules there for a reason, and rules there to manipulate the competitors and govern the type of cars they can compete with.

there was a similar clampdown by the fia at the f3 masters about 7 years ago when half the field had to go shopping because they didn't have the right fireproof shirts on underneath their overalls. it's nice to see they're strict to the letter of the law about safety equipment from the top to the bottom, frankly.

duke_toaster · 22 Jul 2011, 20:32 (Ref:2929921)

Autosport have reported that some teams had to change their suits, plus - as in my original post - SPEED's pit reporter Will Buxton on Twitter.

Hubble · 22 Jul 2011, 23:27 (Ref:2929975)

But the issue was never that the suits were not labelled....just that the marking was printed not embroidered on.....

One question though....if it's SO important to have it embroidered not printed on.....why is it that in all the other GP's this year they have failed to pick this up...?

MGDavid · 23 Jul 2011, 00:32 (Ref:2929990)

Quote:

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

Autosport have reported that some teams had to change their suits, plus - as in my original post - SPEED's pit reporter Will Buxton on Twitter.

thanks for the extra info - never heard of him

Mr V · 23 Jul 2011, 16:37 (Ref:2930153)

Sewn label or screen printed, i can't see the likes of Sparco or Alpine Stars etc giving F1 teams inferior equipment.

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