The Great Debate - Is Drifting motorsport?

[gttouring]

Drifting is a sport like figure skating is.
sure it takes skill, talent, dedication and money...
but it is not a quantifiable thing.
I love it. I drift my 240 in the indusrtial parks all over Orange county California...and i am going early to see it on Saturday at the grandprix of longbeach....
butit certainly doesn't deserve its own forum, a drfit thread in road car should be good.
it sure isn't Big enough in scope to merit more.
what are we gonna talk about? set ups? smoke tyres? Tarzan Yamada, Gushi? D1, Formula D?
the rules? it is so embryonic in its development as an organized even t not enough people are interested, and even i like it but it is not the pinnacle- Speed GT, ChampCAr, IRL , Formula 1, GP2, A1GP, BTCC, WTCC, STCC, ALMS,LMES, FIA-HGT, these are real racing sports, and much is happening to discuss. Drifting....i dunno
i am not flaming, but you must understand, it is like a boxing,Judo,UFC forum talking about pro wrestling.

[BigDaddy]

<snip>

Drifting is a motorsport and forgive me if I am wrong but this is a motorsport forum I signed up too???

Drifting in Australia is probably the fast growing form of motorsport where young people who want to compete in the national series don't need rich parents. It is only going to get bigger.

[Al Weyman]

My opinion of course but that just seems so pointless, the only benifactors must be the tyre companies, leaves me cold sorry but heck if thats what people want let them have a forum, no problem each to their own.

[topwelshman]

Lots of fun but I can't help thinking of teenagers in hoodies saying "yeah man" and "init"

[graham bahr]

imho it is sort of a sport, a bit like syncronised swimming its technical and looks pretty but has got nothing to do with speed, i dont want to see it in the racing forum because its simply isn't, but neither does it belong in road forum, doesn't really fit in with trackday but thats probably closer to where it should go under the existing 10/10 setup,

that said i dont see why it shouldn't be given a chance of its own forum, if it doesn't get used it can be closed down again, but i suspect that once word gets out that there is somewhere on here to disguss it it will see lots of action, whatever we think of drifting it is car based and is'nt going to go away just because most of us racers dont like it.

[graeme]

"What colour neon lights should I put under my car?"

[greenamex2]

Originally Posted by graeme

"What colour neon lights should I put under my car?"

Which ever ones make it go fastest, obviously!

[Dutton]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

My opinion of course but that just seems so pointless...

Well, yes, from a constructive perspective, it is utterly pointless...but, from that point of view, the rest of motorsport doesn't really serve a purpose either...

I was watching Speed the other day, as I am prone to doing, in the hope of coming across school bus racing, which is interesting, but I digress, the point is I came across a programme showing a round of/demonstration by some US based drifting championship.

I thorougly enjoyed it, and would absolutely love to go and see it live. Vroom-vroom-squeel-squeel and what not I find most entertaining. I think that is a distinction, though, I do tend to view it more from an entertainment perspective rather than sport. Not that I deny the skill involved, for there undoubtedly is that. Perhaps in time, as I get to understand the complexities of the judging mechanisms, and what not, I will end up viewing it as a fully fledged sport.

When push comes to shove, I am, in essence, ambivalent regarding a separate forum being set-up: however, I would happily see it given a go.

Originally Posted by racing59

What is sad, is that most of the kids who follow it drive FWD cars..... aren't they missing something?

Higher insurance premiums, .

[R59]

Originally Posted by Dutton

Higher insurance premiums, .

You mean £3250pa TPF&T for Denis' ol' Toyota Corrolla RWD that would drift like billy-o instead of £3245pa TPF&T for that 1.2Clio with 24" wheels, more plastic than the Toys R Us kiddies toys section, and a stereo soooo loud that when turned up, the alternator almost stalls the engine, and a hoooooge ironing board rear wing that offers lift instead of downforce?

I'll put a burberry cap on and take the Clio. Innit. yeah?

Rob.

[greenamex2]

Originally Posted by racing59

You mean £3250pa TPF&T for Denis' ol' Toyota Corrolla RWD that would drift like billy-o instead of £3245pa TPF&T for that 1.2Clio with 24" wheels, more plastic than the Toys R Us kiddies toys section, and a stereo soooo loud that when turned up, the alternator almost stalls the engine, and a hoooooge ironing board rear wing that offers lift instead of downforce?

I'll put a burberry cap on and take the Clio. Innit. yeah?

Rob.

My car is so old that they could get a limited mileage classic car policy! Cheap as chips and with a standard CWP it will do over 150MPH.

[Dutton]

I was more thinking the increased chance of accidents!

[Al Weyman]

Well, yes, from a constructive perspective, it is utterly pointless...but, from that point of view, the rest of motorsport doesn't really serve a purpose either...

Well yes it does, you get to beat (or be beaten) by other competors, what do you get form this? It is athe same as powerboating and skiing, I have mates who have boats but once you have gunned it up and don the bay a few times it becomes boring, no competitive element, now if you were racing said powerboats that would be different.

[Dutton]

But in the powersliding championships they are competing...they are trying to outscore their opponents.

Anyway, competition or otherwise, I cannot agree that motorsport, of any form, really serves any constructive purpose (at least, not in an direct sense).

It is great, and I love it, but that is a different matter.

[EvilPumpkin]

Wow, this is fascinating. I can picture all you guys with pipes and wearing tweed caps and going "harrrumph"

The bottom line is that drifting is a competitive sport. Like just about every competitive sport in the world, it's based on a number of things, not least of which is skill.

And like just about every competitive sport in the world, it serves no useful purpose.

So like just about every competitive sport in the world, that brings it down to enjoyment for the competitor and entertainment for the fans. Since it obviously has that, I don't see the problem.

It's not something I find particularly entertaining, but the amount of spectators that these kind of events get pretty much speaks for itself in a time when your average club race meeting is lucky to get a couple of hundred people through the gate. It's also rapidly attracting large sponsorship deals as a result.

A forward thinking view would be looking at having a drifting round included in a normal race meeting in order to bring in new spectators who may then become interested in the circuit racing as well - and bring the sponsors in with them.....

[greenamex2]

WWE wrestling pulls in huge crowds and features hugely talented athletes/actors.

It still isn't a sport though, it's entertainment and has it's place.

In the end a massive proportion of spectators want to see spectacular driving, collisions and crashes. Perhaps we just need to remove the non-contact element of motor racing to keep them happy? And maybe nominate one person per race to drive into a wall? And introduce a regulation only allowing huge V8's and 155 rear tyres (should keep Al and Rob happy!)?

[Al Weyman]

Come down to Brands on the 15th April and I will show you how a 500 + bhp rear wheel drive Camaro can really light up the tyres, no on second thoughts those Kumhos cost me £140 each :-(.

Thing is with this 'competitive' sport as opposed to racing, its like comparing Ice Dancing with speed skating. In the later it is simply down to the guy who skates the fastest without falling over in dancing it is at the whim of the judges and we have all seen over the years how biase they can be. A race, any type of race, in my opinion is not pointless as it shows who is the superior on the day, this lark just shows who has the most BHP in their rear wheel drive car. Also with the green lobby breathing down our necks this 'sport' does nothing to applease the Greens. You could say 'so what' but if and when they eventually close us down it will be a different story.

[EvilPumpkin]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Thing is with this 'competitive' sport as opposed to racing, its like comparing Ice Dancing with speed skating. In the later it is simply down to the guy who skates the fastest without falling over in dancing it is at the whim of the judges and we have all seen over the years how biase they can be. A race, any type of race, in my opinion is not pointless as it shows who is the superior on the day, this lark just shows who has the most BHP in their rear wheel drive car. Also with the green lobby breathing down our necks this 'sport' does nothing to applease the Greens. You could say 'so what' but if and when they eventually close us down it will be a different story.

A race is totally pointless in the overall scheme of things. Who cares who is faster? Only the people competing and the fans. This is the whole point. Whether it's cars going vroom or 11 men in shorts chasing after a small spherical object, any sport, no matter what it is or what the format is, is pointless. Doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it though, since the point of it is enjoyment.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

A race, any type of race, in my opinion is not pointless as it shows who is the superior on the day..

or in some cases, who has the biggest cheque book / most BHP.

That said, I agree with you about drifting. I don't understand the point.

[crofty]

Go on then, I'll chip my 2p's in.

It's certainly a competition in that dancing is, or figureskating is and I don't deny it takes a lot of skill to do. I think what gets people's backs up is that there's no definite measureable result, it's based on judge's opinoins, whereas racing, highjump, javelin, etc. have a definite output, times, height, measured distance.

Up unil recently within the world of motorsport there's only ever really been timed events, i.e. racing of some form, be it circuit, rally, hillclimb, drag, a million others.

I guess the argument arises in whether Motorsport can encompas something that isn't racing (which Drifting certainly isn't).

I believe it can.

[ScottyGibbs]

everyone seems hell bent on the idea that drifting isnt racing....

Do you not win a battle if you pass the lead car??? Isnt that racing? If anything drifting is the hardest form of racing. Passing is rare and anyone who can pull it off is a hero. If theres no passing, it comes down to the best execution over the course!
Keep in mind that a pass in drift only counts if done under drift conditions, no straightening and gassing it past ur opponent.

I drove in a motorkhana or as some ppl call em autotest recently and used a drift style to link the course's. Not only was it fast, but I beat a few ppl in my class who have been doing these events since before my birth!

Before everyone is so keen to compare it to figureskating or the alike... get ur backside in a drift car and give it a go. Id say majority of drifters have more skills than your average club level racer.

Yes I drift, yes I wear a baseball cap and no I dont drift on the street!! but if you think that the street element will ruin it for everyone, take a look at drag racing... that started from a street sport much like drift did in Japan... There will always be knobs out there that will try and use the street as a track, regardless of whats in fashion at the time..

[orrmate]

My view is similar to one already posted earlier in the thread. The way I've always looked at drifting is that its Motorsport, because it uses engine-power and it is a competition, but not Motor Racing, because the cars aren't physically racing each other. I also consider Rallying and Hillclimbing to be Motorsport rather than Motor Racing for the same reason (which probably won't be a popular view with some people).

Just one way of looking at it I suppose. To say it isn't MotorSport is unfair imo, especially if Freestyle motocross is considered Motorsport.

[Captain VXR]

Originally Posted by ScottyGibbs

everyone seems hell bent on the idea that drifting isnt racing....

Do you not win a battle if you pass the lead car??? Isnt that racing? If anything drifting is the hardest form of racing. Passing is rare and anyone who can pull it off is a hero. If theres no passing, it comes down to the best execution over the course!
Keep in mind that a pass in drift only counts if done under drift conditions, no straightening and gassing it past ur opponent.

I drove in a motorkhana or as some ppl call em autotest recently and used a drift style to link the course's. Not only was it fast, but I beat a few ppl in my class who have been doing these events since before my birth!

Before everyone is so keen to compare it to figureskating or the alike... get ur backside in a drift car and give it a go. Id say majority of drifters have more skills than your average club level racer.

Yes I drift, yes I wear a baseball cap and no I dont drift on the street!! but if you think that the street element will ruin it for everyone, take a look at drag racing... that started from a street sport much like drift did in Japan... There will always be knobs out there that will try and use the street as a track, regardless of whats in fashion at the time..

I'd say the EDC drivers are close to BTCC drivers skill wise especially Phil M, Maciej, Brett C, Mark L, Tony G and Mark J

[:) RallyX]

my opinion is that drifting is great as a performance/demonstration at events shows but its not motorsport.
I would think it would be better off motorsport tracks and back in car parks.

[westfieldbend]

Originally Posted by :) RallyX

my opinion is that drifting is great as a performance/demonstration at events shows but its not motorsport.
I would think it would be better off motorsport tracks and back in car parks.

I look forward to a season at lydden next year with NO Bhp/drift events then....

[Pato]

Originally Posted by :) RallyX

my opinion is that drifting is great as a performance/demonstration at events shows but its not motorsport.
I would think it would be better off motorsport tracks and back in car parks.

What a stupid post, look at how big drifting is in Japan and America, drifting clearly has market potential otherwise we wouldn't see manufacturer backed cars and corporate sponsored cars in drifting.

And for the record, it actually started off on the mountain passes in Japan, not car parks.

Back on topic, yes I think it's motorsport. Motor cars are used, and it is a sport, so therefore it is a motorsport.

It's also awesome to watch, and I really want to get into it. could get really big in the UK, a shame about some of the idiots in the sport though, reading the Driftworks forum really puts me off, the drivers should behave like professionals off track as well if they want the sport to grow.