Is the Am class a bad idea?

[Thaw Daggerslash]

So, two years the Am class has been at Le Mans, and we've had two bad accidents. Last year for Rockenfeller, this year for Davidson. Not good statistics.

Is it time to scrap this class? I'm all for allowing gentlemen drivers etc having a go, but really, only if they prove they're talented enough, and not a risk to others. You wouldn't have "gentlemen" drivers racing in the Indy 500 or the Monaco GP in this day and age.

What do you think?

[FIRE]

But we had also stupid accidents caused by pro's (McNish, Nakajima).

[Nick6]

Yes.

I provided a loophole for FLM to enter a 3rd car.

[airbusA346]

Originally Posted by Nick6

I provided a loophole for FLM to enter a 3rd car.

[airbusA346]

NO!!

[GAMEOFGUTS21]

They should stick to just "GT". This will attract better drivers and better teams, and discourage the amateurs as they will not be able to compete with the factory teams. I don't understand why Paltalla, Simonsen, Poulsen, Pilet, Armindo, Canal, Lamy, and so many others aren't in Pro. I find it kind of ridiculous. But the "pay to play" drivers need to go, IMHO.

[Jameson]

Originally Posted by GAMEOFGUTS21

They should stick to just "GT". This will attract better drivers and better teams, and discourage the amateurs as they will not be able to compete with the factory teams. I don't understand why Paltalla, Simonsen, Poulsen, Pilet, Armindo, Canal, Lamy, and so many others aren't in Pro. I find it kind of ridiculous. But the "pay to play" drivers need to go, IMHO.

The amateurs will always be there simply because their money is needed.

The drivers you mentioned would likely all love to be in "PRO car" if they had the choice, but being paid to drive in Le Mans, even sharing a car with an amateur, is surely more tempting than watching the race on telly! And for a Pro driver, to get a job to lead an Am car to a class victory is more interesting than having to race against fully pro line-ups in Pro class while having an amateur in his car.

The Am class is not only for amateurs. In effect, it is a Pro-Am class, so it's normal these pros are racing there. Actually, I don't think there was one single car with 3 amateur drivers.

You may not like this and I'm not commenting on the Davidson accident, but in the end it's the LMP drivers that have the responsibility for safe overtaking. If there's a chance that the slower GT car might turn in on you, it's better to back off and take the next chance (i.e. on the exit of the following corner). Problem is, the LMP guys are pushing flat out and they don't want to lose precious seconds behind a GT car so they tend to take risks and dive in hoping/assuming the GT doesn't turn. And that sometimes leads to accidents. It's all part of racing!

[canam]

Originally Posted by Jameson

The amateurs will always be there simply because their money is needed.

You may not like this and I'm not commenting on the Davidson accident, but in the end it's the LMP drivers that have the responsibility for safe overtaking. If there's a chance that the slower GT car might turn in on you, it's better to back off and take the next chance (i.e. on the exit of the following corner). Problem is, the LMP guys are pushing flat out and they don't want to lose precious seconds behind a GT car so they tend to take risks and dive in hoping/assuming the GT doesn't turn. And that sometimes leads to accidents. It's all part of racing!

It doesn't need to be part of racing. Make the penalty big enough and the works LMP cars won't do stupid things. They need to anticipate and think

It has been suggested that it would be courtroom stuff: no way. The stewards are the ultimate arbiter, that is that. The decision can be made in 30 seconds

[MitchZ06]

Lol, watch Le Mans die in the arse if we boot the gentleman drivers....

[supermario21]

I think Am drivers should be geared to run LMP2 cars or even bring in FLM and only let Pro teams run GT cars. The speed difference between top line prototypes combined with gentlemen drivers makes everything worse.

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by supermario21

I think Am drivers should be geared to run LMP2 cars or even bring in FLM and only let Pro teams run GT cars. The speed difference between top line prototypes combined with gentlemen drivers makes everything worse.

That's a terrible idea. Driving a prototype you can overtake any GT car even if it's going to hold its line like it's on rails. Ultimately it's LMP driver's decision when to pass. That's why in a GT car there is no way you can avoid being rammed by a prototype with someone inadequate to be at the wheel.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

That'That's why in a GT car there is no way you can avoid being rammed by a prototype with someone inadequate to be at the wheel......

.....in the GT car.......

[Nick6]

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

Lol, watch Le Mans die in the arse if we boot the gentleman drivers....

They can run in GT like before. Give a trophy to the top finishing gentleman drivers if you want to award them something. No need to split what was a healthy class and pretend we have 2 classes.

[Thaw Daggerslash]

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

Lol, watch Le Mans die in the arse if we boot the gentleman drivers....

Yes, and watch someone die on track if we don't. :P

[deggis]

Even without these accidents, probably only a matter of time when the class gets booted or "merged" if entries increase little bit more for the other classes. At least I don't think they can keep turning down quality entries in other classes for much longer. (With this I mean that to call something a class there obivously has to be enough cars in it)

[The Badger]

Whatcha gotta realise is this ..... historically sportcars was the rich gentleman ..... no , AM class is great .

[broadrun96]

Can we hold or close any of these threads every time a driver causes anything from a slide to car destroying wreck? Usually filled with the SAME hand wringing and crying to exclude them all.

[NaBUru38]

I believe that it's hard to fill a 56-car grid only with professionals. It's not that there aren't 168 professional drivers willing to race. But some would reject driving for positions 45-56. It's natural that the backfielders get one or two amateurs.

[Speed-King]

The guys that are now in the AM class have always been at LM, so it's really nothing new in that regard.

I hate the philosophy of determining a class solely by driver talent rather than tech rules, but a safety hazard it isn't.

[Adam43]

How many of the Am drivers drove into someone? How many of the Pro drivers drove into someone?
I suppose it may be greater 'strike rate' by the Am, but it isn't at an unacceptable level. To judge this you will have to define what the unacceptable level is.

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

I believe that it's hard to fill a 56-car grid only with professionals. It's not that there aren't 168 professional drivers willing to race. But some would reject driving for positions 45-56. It's natural that the backfielders get one or two amateurs.

And, to repeat what has been said above, we may not even get cars 45-56 if we don't have these drivers.

Further no one is forcing any of these drivers to take part. If a Pro driver doesn't think it is acceptable then they don't have to take part.
There are probably some Am drivers who think that about some of the Pro drivers!

[JayBMS]

No: when we had a larger GT2 field they wernt all 'pro' cars. the Gents are what keep the race going. Remove P2 & GTE-AM and ACO racing would look very weak

[Japanese Samurai]

Ama class?
Is it the class in which Kazuki Nakajima participated?

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Japanese Samurai

Ama class?
Is it the class in which Kazuki Nakajima participated?

This is why you can't say pro drivers are good and amateur drivers are bad.
Since the beginning of Le Mans and sports car racing in general amateur drivers are part of the sport.

[mythoughtsareracing]

Originally Posted by Thaw Daggerslash

Yes, and watch someone die on track if we don't. :P

Racing is dangerous and drivers are killed participating in it.
It's an unfortunate fact of racing. Professional vs amateur has nothing to do with it.

Originally Posted by FIRE

This is why you can't say pro drivers are good and amateur drivers are bad.
Since the beginning of Le Mans and sports car racing in general amateur drivers are part of the sport.

Thank you.

[Adam43]

I am not going to make a great long post because all my rationale has been said by others above.

The Am class is fine.

Actually one point. I see no reason to have the Am class, but gentleman drivers should be welcomed whatever.

Pants, I'm not good at this. Second point. Do we apply this to the N24 too?